A tearful plea for help!

[sarahrose]

I have encountered a problem I have never had to face. First I will tell you the history. My daughter is four years old. She was born premature at 29 weeks gestation, due to the fact that her twin died in eutero and an emergency c- section had to be performed. Because my daughter was pumping her own blood into her twin, she was born very small. She weighed 2lbs, and had a medly of medical problems. But, she soon was able to breath on her own and two months later, we were able to take her home-she was 5lbs at that point. She grew very quickly though, and came up to nearly normal weight. She will always be smaller than average because of her prematurity, but with the great, healthy food we fed her, she has always been extremely healthy.
Three weeks ago, she caught a stomach virus that has caused her to have literally constant diarrhea and vomiting. The doc refuses to give her any suppositories, and is clueless as to how to treat her. She will not eat and has lost an amazing amount of weight. I can see her bones protruding. She weighs 28 lbs and is four years old! Yesterday she ate two tiny peices of foccacia bread, and the day before she ate ONE saltine cracker! I have tried everything I know of, and even (shamefully) tried to resort to scare tactics. I asked if she wanted to go to the hospital and get a tube put into her stomach! It is so unlike me to resort to stuff like that, but I am so worried about her! I also worry that someone will blame our vegan diet-I already always have felt that I had to defend myself, even when she was at her healthiest, but now that she is skinny with grey skin, I feel that people may point the finger.
Does anyone have any advice, tried and true methods, or anything????!!!!! I need something-I am getting desperate and am feeling alot of self doubt and guilt. HELP!

[annie7]

What is she drinking? Maybe instead of water and juice, slip her broth, or something.. Maybe crush up some vitamins in her juice or water, too. Is she over the illness, but just not eating, or is she still having bouts of diareah? If she's eating bread/crackers, will she at least let you smear a little peanutbutter on them?

[sarahrose]

I've been giving her gatorade, recharge and water. She won't drink broth, but I have at least been able to get her to eat her chewable vitamins every day. I tried the 'inconspicuous peanut butter' ploy, and it unfortunatly did not work. I just got back from the store, and got her some white bread (never thought I'd see the day.....) because she tried it one time and loved it. The idea is to cram as many nutrients in between those empty, devoid white slabs as possible!I also got her some enviro-kids cocoa crisps. You can see how desperate I am! But, I figured if she will eat, even if it's less healthy, that it is better than not eating at all. When she's better though, it's back to whole grain bread and oatmeal!

[Erin Pavlina]

Is she fearful of eating because she's afraid she's going to get sick again?

Or is she just not interested in eating at all? As in, no appetite?

Figuring out what caused the stomach problem could be key. It could be a parasite or something. Did the doctor run tests?

Try to get some fiber into her like fruit smoothies. Might help a lot!

Is she still suffering from diarrhea and vomiting?

[GardenMomma]

First bit of advice, get a new physician.
The distress, emotional and physical, that a child experiences from intestinal illness isn't something that should be taken lightly or ignored or left untreated by any physician.

Second, I'll bet the poor child is afraid to throw up again, or hurt her little bottom with more diarrhea. I don't blame her one bit. I agree with Erin that something with fiber in it would be beneficial. Something to help restore healthy intestinal flora too. Maybe a smoothie made with cultured soy and strawberries would tempt her, it would surely be healthy. Staying liquid in the main with a little bread or rice or cracker is probably going to be very tummy friendly. "Cream soups" made with soymilk white sauce are soothing and child friendly and a good way to disguise types of vegetables that might be unappealing to her right now. For white sauce I melt 3 Tbl Earth Balance in a saucepan over medium heat, minced onions are optional as is garlic, wisk in 3 Tbls flour (I use 100% White whole wheat OR 20% bran flour) and stir while it bubbles. Remove from heat and slowly wisk in 2 cups plain unsweetened soymilk. Return to heat and heat and stir constantly until it thickens. Meanwhile, steam whatever veggie you choose until tender. We've used broccoli, spinach, potatoes, carrots, cauliflower, kale etc etc... oh, and mushrooms! but I mince the 'shrooms to disguise them. Puree the veggie(s) and stir into the cream sauce. This type of "soup" is my children's fav when they aren't feeling well.

Also, there is nothing terribly wrong with giving her white bread for the time being. Her little tummy is having a difficult time, white bread will be easy for her to digest. I bake my own bread, but there are some commercial varieties that have unbleached, unbromated flour that aren't bad.

Rice pudding! Banana pudding! Maple pudding! PUDDING! I don't know many children that will turn down a creamy pudding. Plain rice with a little EB and maple syrup is also very yummy. Farina is also soothing (My kids like Arrowhead Mills "Bear Mush")

We have recently discovered Silk's "Very Vanilla" soymilk and oh my is that tasty stuff. It is also more fortified than their regular products. Your DD might enjoy a nice cup of it.

I have an underweight 9yo son, so I sympathize totally with your plight. Once she starts eating again what I have found helpful in keeping my little guy's weight up is the old trick that you mentioned of adding nut butters to everything. I also add avocado to his salad every night. He gets more olive oil and flaxseed oil too, on salads, bread, potatoes, rice etc. Baked potatoes, btw, are a very easy food to feed to difficult eaters. There is nothing threatening about a potato! I let my 9yo dress his up with soy-sour cream, butter, soy "cheese" shreds, avocado, black olives,salsa etc. He usually has less potato than topping these days, but I'm not worried since he also mows down salads etc, he knows what fresh unadulterated foods taste like.

Oh, and I never food battle anymore. No one wins a food battle. Ever. I just make sure there is always something for him to nosh on, serve him his meals and let it be.

Prayers for you both :)

Lisa

[sarahrose]

GardenMomma- how funny! I am baking her a potatoe as I looked at these posts! I also do flax oil (I hide it on her baked potatoes and in her salad dressing). The soup is a great idea, though she has never been a soup lover I am open to trying anything! I will also try the smoothie idea. She will not eat the soy yogurt I offer her to get some live cultures into those poor intestines of hers, but she may drink a smoothie.

Erin, I think the issue is just that she has no appetite. The doc told me she has a stomach virus, which he says cannot be treated with medicine. He gave me three suppositories so that my husband and I could get some sleep (poor dh almost fell asleep behind the wheel from no sleep for three weeks-dd is the sickest at night), but would not give us more, as they are not good to take more than temporary. I was very dissapointed because the Doc told me that if she did not get better by a certain day, he would run tests, but when I took her in, he basically just said keep her hydrated, there's nothing we can do, ect, ect.

I thank you guys for the suggestions-keep em coming! It is nice to have some support in a time like this!

[Fiona]

Sarahrose, I'm very sorry your daughter has been so poorly.

I would try offering her small quantities of food at regular intervals. Soup and anything that is sloppy, and easy to eat, sounds like a good idea. I would also try appealing to her sense of sight and smell to help her regain her appetite. Have you tried making her food into pictures e.g. a flower or a funny face using brightly coloured fruit and veg. Are there any particular food smells that your daughter loves? If she doesn't like the idea of eating, perhaps she might respond to the smell of some of her favourite things being cooked. Would an incentive chart help persuade your daughter to eat a little more? You could award a sticker or star for everything she eats, even tell her that she can have a treat or small gift if she gets x amount of stars - something that you know she would love. I know it's bribery, but if it can kick start her eating, then I think it's worth it.

Very best of luck. Hope your daughter feels better soon.

Fiona

[vegma]

Maybe try some tiny whole wheat or veggie alphabets in some broth? Ds loves the letters and I finally found a broth he likes too (its a slight variation of "Loads of Lentil" soup from CalciYum! - then pureed). Good luck!

[Ckflew]

Given that traditional western medicine is generally clueless about vegans... I still would have thought that a doctor would have recommended that ANYONE with a stomach virus that bad would be in the hospital. Home nursing is preferable, I think, but sometimes you need a bit of help. I agree with Gardenmomma that you should think about getting a new doctor. Even if he's clueless as to how to help your daughter, he should be thinking about stopping your daughter's suffering and suggesting a second opinion or a specialist.

Foodwise, I think the others have had some good ideas. If she's eating the foccia and saltines, she might be tempted by other mild grain-based foods like the lighter breads, plain warm cereals, etc.

Btw, my nephew was another micro-preemie (born at 23 1/2 weeks, 1.5 pounds). With their fragile immune systems, we do tend to worry about them more than other children. I hope your daughter feels more like herself soon!

Colleen

[sarahrose]

Thank you Fiona, Vegma, and Ckflew.

I am seriously considering switching Doctors. Even though it is (according to the Doc) a virus, which cannot be treated with antibiotics, I had thought that there would be some kind of treatment available for her symptoms at least, to relieve some of her suffering. If I were a doctor, I would want to make sure that it was not something more serious by running tests. I got the name of a friend's Doctor, and will go meet her and see if I like her better. Meanwhile, dd ate half an english muffin with fruit spread, and has not thrown up since yesterday morning. think she may be getting better! I will keep my fingers crossed!

[annie7]

So happy to hear about the small progress...one step at a time is what it takes.

[Casey]

sarahrose, how is your daughter doing? Hopefully she's feeling a lot better and eating again.

I hope you're both feeling better. :)

[alexis]

Sarahrose, don't feel bad about using scare tatics, you're just worried, my parents did that to me too when i had food poisoning followed by a stomach virus, they scared me to death about hospitals and IVs and the doctor threatened an operation, But I hope she is feeling better now ....

[sarahrose]

This is the first time i've been online in awhile-my computer got invaded by that 'my doom' virus. In wanted to let you all know that as of a week and a half ago, she is better!!!!!
After 3 1/2 weeks of illness, she is finally recovering! She has been eating like there's no tomorrow, having two breakfasts, two lunches, two dinners, and snacks all day. It seems that now she is always hungry, always eating, and I am always cooking! (obviously, no complaints here about it) She has already gained back alot of the weight she lost just in the short time she's been well, so I am very relieved and am not as worried as I was. She has the roses back in her cheeks, her eyes are once again bright, and the grey, pale look is gone. So.....Yay! Thanks everyone for your support.

[sophie]

So glad to hear your daughter is better! It's so stressful when they are sick, isn't it.

[annie7]

You are such a good mommy!

[sarahrose]

Thanks Annie!

[Dilemma97]

Hi Sarah,
I have seven-year-old quintuplets who were also born at 29 weeks. They ranged in weight from 1.4 lbs to 2.15 lbs at birth. Right now, three are nearing 60 pounds, one 50 pounds, and my little peanut is still only about 35 pounds. Because they were born so premature does not mean that they will always be small as you can tell by my children's weights. My smallest one was the smallest at birth. She is completely normal and has no other health problems except asthma which is from being on a ventilator causing scarring to her lung tissue when she was born. It really is all but non-existent now. She runs and plays with all the other kids, she does what all the other kids do, she is bright ,and rarely gets sick. There are days when she will not want to eat much of anything and other days she will eat anything I put in front of her. Her pediatrician is not concerned about her size. Why? Because she is healthy and is following her own growth curve. She has been to a gastroenterologist (in 2002) who did a scope of her stomach and esophagus in conjunction with blood tests that indicated a possibility of Celiac's Disease (people with this problem can have problems gaining weight because of malabsorption problems among other things). She does not have Celiac's and everything seems to be in working order. She's just small.

I am not a medical professional but what I have learned from all the medical professionals I have dealt with is that as long as my dd is healthy, alert, and active as she should be at her age and is growing according to HER OWN GROWTH CURVE, there is no need to worry. All of these apply to her so I don't worry about her. Keep in mind also that the norm for weight gain in a child your daughter's age is between 2 - 4 pounds per year.

As far as DCF goes - well there isn't much you can do about ignorance except try to educate them IF they intrude into your life. That's what I did when they investigated us because of our vegan diet due in large part to my dd's light weight. We still have our children and they are still thriving. If you really are afraid of this happening to you, feel free to send me a private e-mail and I'll be glad to talk to you about it. I would do it here except that this message is already quite lengthy and I don't want to make it much more so. :)

God's Peace,
Gayle

[Dilemma97]

Sarah,
I forgot to mention something to you. It may not apply at all, but maybe worth looking into. On of my dd's (not my little peanut) was sick with what seemed like a stomach virus two summers ago. She wouldn't eat anything and drank only what I forced into her - sometimes with a syringe. She went to the doctor a couple of times and he said it was just a stomach virus and would clear up. Finally, on the third visit he saw how listless she was and was showing signs of dehydration and he sent us to the ER. She was admitted to the hospital where tons of tests were run to find out why she was getting worse and not better. Finally the gastroenterologist found a parasite, started her on the proper medication and she was significantly better within 24 hours and completely recovered within a week. It took my dd awhile before her normal appetite returned - I think she was afraid if she ate anything it would make her feel the same as before, but she finally got back on track.

Have you asked for a referral to a gastroenterologist? It could be that this type of doctor would be able to pinpoint what is going on. If your insurance requires you to have a referral to go to a specialist and your dd's ped will not give one, maybe go to an ER (preferrably pediatric) where they may be willing to give you a referral. Just a thought.

Gayle

[sarahrose]

It is heartening to know that your preemies grew so well. Thanks for the other advice, too. Luckily the problem has passed (finally!). She got better awhile ago and has since gained back the weight she lost. It's funny, because before she got sick she never had a very hearty appetite. Now she eats big meals at every meal and frequent snacks, so she weighs more now than she did before! It was never the weight that worried me as much as her overall health though. She has always been really, really healthy, with rosy cheeks and plenty of energy, so I never worried about her slightly smaller size. I think I noticed her weight more once her rosy glow was diminished. She looked like that awful stereotype of vegan kids-pale and sick! Luckily we can once again prove them wrong now that she once again looks and acts better than all of those overweight and listless Mc. Donalds kids.

[Dilemma97]

I'm so glad to hear that your dd is doing so well. After I posted my messages to you I noticed the date and hoped that she was doing better after all this time. Pretty much I'm late with everything these days! :)

God's Peace,
Gayle

[NEfromNY]

Originally posted by sarahrose


Oh God, please listen carefully. Your child sounds very ill. Take her to the doctor, or a hospital, but take her. And if they get condescending with you about the veganism, which they will because it is in the nature of doctors to condescend to non-doctors about just about everything unless they're good little toys and curls...I mean, boys and girls, and say, "Gosh doctor, I sure don't know anything. I bow to your greatness."

The fact that your child is a vegan is only a problem if you are not going out of your way to make sure she eats enough and the right balance. In the interim, if you are that concerned, make her some fish with some potatoes and see if she'll eat it. Perhaps she is lacking in something. If she won't eat it, she needs to see a doctor.

[sarahrose]

Well, this post was from Febuary 2004, so she has been better for a long time now. I did take her to the doctor BTW, three times, and he said that there was nothing to do but keep her hydrated and wait. I never said that I thought her sickness was vegan related. She had a stomach virus, something that is not in any way caused by diet, and that, being a virus, there is not medication for. I'm a little confused...we are vegans and do not eat fish, so why would I make that for her to eat?

Every day, I give my daughter two tablespoons of cold pressed flax oil, a good quality multi vitamin, a special calcium drink and an under the tongue vegan B12 tab. All of that is really just to be on the safe side because she gets all the nutrients she needs from the foods we eat, but I do it anyways. That stomach virus was the only time she has ever been sick, so I am pretty confident that she gets everything she needs to be healthy.

[NEfromNY]

Originally posted by sarahrose
Well, this post was from Febuary 2004, so she has been better for a long time now. I did take her to the doctor BTW, three times, and he said that there was nothing to do but keep her hydrated and wait. I never said that I thought her sickness was vegan related. She had a stomach virus, something that is not in any way caused by diet, and that, being a virus, there is not medication for. I'm a little confused...we are vegans and do not eat fish, so why would I make that for her to eat?

Every day, I give my daughter two tablespoons of cold pressed flax oil, a good quality multi vitamin, a special calcium drink and an under the tongue vegan B12 tab. All of that is really just to be on the safe side because she gets all the nutrients she needs from the foods we eat, but I do it anyways. That stomach virus was the only time she has ever been sick, so I am pretty confident that she gets everything she needs to be healthy.

Yes, I realized after I posted it how old this thread was. I generally spend my time on boards that get much higher traffic than this one seems to and tend to take it for granted that all threads that appear are current.

To me, when you suggest that you are afraid of criticisms to your veganism, that implies to me that you are not sure of yourself. I am by nature a strong-minded person and confident in things in which I state a knowledge, and the entire tenor of the post, other than being very concerned for your child, sounded like you have an underlying fear that perhaps you are not nourishing your child enough and now she' s sick from it. I don't know you, so you can safely consider this to be an objective impression. So I suggested that if you are really worried that there might be some connection there, perhaps try to give her a little of something healthy like fish that's off the traditional diet. But if you say that that is not a concern that you have, or at least you don't have it now (either way), then great.

I'm glad your daughter is better.

I personally am working my way towards my former diet which is more macrobiotics with underpinnings of veganism. I believe that meat and dairy are best left out of the diet to the greatest extent possible, but I listen to my body, and I can tell when I need a little bit of an animal protein, and then I eat fish (deep sea catch only if I can find it). My personal motivations are more health related than ethics related.

[Erin Pavlina]

NEfromNY,

The VegFamily Forums were designed to be a safe haven for vegan parents to discuss raising vegan children. It's true that these boards don't get as much traffic as some boards, and we like it that way. Other boards allow debate and trolling, and we simply don't. The quality of the people who post here is outstanding.

Please be respectful of the vegan moms who post here, otherwise I will need to suspend your posting privileges.

The people who post here don't want to defend their chosen lifestyles, nor do they have to. If you are not comfortable with the "vibe" here, you may want to skip viewing these forums.

However, we'd love to have you around if you feel like you can contribute in positive ways.

[NEfromNY]

Originally posted by Erin Pavlina
NEfromNY,

The VegFamily Forums were designed to be a safe haven for vegan parents to discuss raising vegan children. It's true that these boards don't get as much traffic as some boards, and we like it that way. Other boards allow debate and trolling, and we simply don't. The quality of the people who post here is outstanding.

Please be respectful of the vegan moms who post here, otherwise I will need to suspend your posting privileges.

The people who post here don't want to defend their chosen lifestyles, nor do they have to. If you are not comfortable with the "vibe" here, you may want to skip viewing these forums.

However, we'd love to have you around if you feel like you can contribute in positive ways.

Erin,

I have to tell you that in the very short time I have been here, I have been shocked by the temperament I have found on this board. I have been critical and judgmental of NOBODY, nor have I said anything that questions veganism. I have said that I do something moderately different (how DARE I?). What exactly do you think brought me here? Some odd desire to go around the Internet bashing vegans and other people who ostensibly do not make the same lifestyle choices as I -- odd since a form of veganism modified to approximate macrobiotics IS my lifestyle choice?! It seems to be the case that if anybody shows up here who says anything in any way other than exactly what everybody else here says (I'm 100% vegan, and it's all because I want to be "compassionate" -- which is odd since people here don't seem to know how to treat other PEOPLE.) they are behaving badly. It is very strange and very clannish and I have been made to feel very unwelcome. Your board members expect tolerance for themselves but utterly FREAK at the sight of a new idea.

I have not introduced ONE idea -- please try reading my posts more carefully and with a less slanted view if you can muster it --that attempted to criticize anyone for their lifestyles (or at least not that had that intent). It is very strange that you or anyone else would think so. Wow. A tad hyper-sensitive.

By all means, revoke my posting "privileges," as it's been more of a punishment than a privilege and delete my information from your database.

And my GOD, even my saying that the board has lower board traffic than I'm used to so I didn't notice until after I posted that the last post was so old warranted defensiveness on your part. Look inward. Merry Christmas, or Happy Hannukah, or Blessed Yule, or Happy Kwanzaa or whatever applies.

[NEfromNY]

Originally posted by NEfromNY
Yes, I realized after I posted it how old this thread was. I generally spend my time on boards that get much higher traffic than this one seems to and tend to take it for granted that all threads that appear are current.

To me, when you suggest that you are afraid of criticisms to your veganism, that implies to me that you are not sure of yourself. I am by nature a strong-minded person and confident in things in which I state a knowledge, and the entire tenor of the post, other than being very concerned for your child, sounded like you have an underlying fear that perhaps you are not nourishing your child enough and now she' s sick from it. I don't know you, so you can safely consider this to be an objective impression. So I suggested that if you are really worried that there might be some connection there, perhaps try to give her a little of something healthy like fish that's off the traditional diet. But if you say that that is not a concern that you have, or at least you don't have it now (either way), then great.

I'm glad your daughter is better.

I personally am working my way towards my former diet which is more macrobiotics with underpinnings of veganism. I believe that meat and dairy are best left out of the diet to the greatest extent possible, but I listen to my body, and I can tell when I need a little bit of an animal protein, and then I eat fish (deep sea catch only if I can find it). My personal motivations are more health related than ethics related.

Dear Sarahrose,

I am leaving this board, but I would like to say to you that there was no criticism of your vegan lifestyle intended in this post. You don't know me, so you don't know what my views about things are, and if you had questions about what you suspected I might have been implying, I would have been fine with respectful, non-assumptive questions leading to clarification of what I might have been implying.

I may have taken for granted that at least SOME vegans around here would be vegans for predominantly health reasons and thus would have studied all the materials I have and thus understand where I am coming from with this. Understand that I am NOT SAYING that a person cannot be fully vegan and healthy. I said that fully vegan plus fish works for my family...or at least we are trying to get it to work for our family. It worked for me when I was single. With kids, it's harder. Also I was in New York City when I was a macrobiotic. I'm in Texas now. It's a lot harder here. Anyway....

I do not think your daughter was sick because she's a vegan, though I do think that children are very picky eaters and as such, it is a significant challenge to keep them healthy and vegan, but it is not one that cannot be overcome -- you just have to be really, really determined about it. And I suggested that if you WERE concerned about that as a cause, do what you had to do. I don't believe, for myself, in making my dietary choices a burden on myself. I can allow slight flexibility under certain conditions (read Michio Kuchi if you have not already and you'll see the theory that says that's okay. But you don't have to DO IT if you don't agree with it).

So, I explained this, or tried to (seems a bit hard to say the right thing around here), so that you would not have to carry around negative feelings over what you believed you read in my post.

Goodbye.

[sarahrose]

Sorry if the vibe of my post was a little defensive. I think that for alot of us, we are so constantly badgered by unsupportive family and uninformed people that it is easy to read criticism into words that maybe were not intended to be. I do apologize for jumping on the defensive. I think also that Erin was not intending to be rude. She knows the verbal abuse many of us have to deal with over veganism, often by total strangers and completely unprovoked by us. She is just trying to give us one 100% supportive place where we don't have to defend ourselves and our choices. I think that everyone will agree that we are very welcoming to people, whether they are 100% vegan, vegetarian, ovo-lacto or pescatarian (what you would fall under). I know this because we have gotten alot of different types of veggies on here and they were always welcomed.

Sorry if you have had a negative experience. If anyone has been rude to you for no reason then it is not something that is at all regular on here. Usually everyone is polite, supportive and helpful.

[PikkuMyy]

I have to say that I'm well aware of some vegans who are very aggressive and judgemental and I have not met any of them on this forum.

SarahRose - I have to say that I thought your response to NEfromNY was very polite and kind considering what she was saying about your dietary choices and decisions as a mother. I would not have reacted kindly. Who comes on a vegan board and tells someone to eat fish? Well, obviously she did, but I'm surprised that she didn't get to know the board better before making such a decision, or better yet, ask you about your reasons for veganism before making such a suggestion and then such comments.

[annie7]

It's hard to read the emotions of a poster, using only text. I'm sure NEfromNY was trying to be helpful by offering advice that works for her own family. I realize it's not advice you usually don't get on a vegan/veggie forum, but I truly don't think she was being malicious.

Let's all take a deep breath and start over...

[PikkuMyy]

Oh, I wasn't saying that she was in any way malicious. But to read Sarahrose's reply and then say that SR was being defensive and that she knew her daughter's diet was what had made her sick is just not logical.