Chicken pox/opinion

[Christa]

Hi all - I need some opinions. My girls (5 & 3) aren't vaxed for chicken pox & one of my older daughter's schoolmates has cp at the moment. I took the girls over to her house to play on Thursday evening hoping that they will get it, too, & get over with it.

I made the mistake of letting 2 of the moms @ my kids' dance class know that I was doing this. One of the moms has now asked me to not bring the girls to dance class for the next 2-3 weeks b/c she doesn't want her dd exposed. I obviously wasn't planning on bringing them if they were showing signs of cp or had any fever, headaches, pre-cp signs. However, I don't want to make them into lepers for the next 3 weeks based on the possibility that they may get sick.

My understanding is that they can be infectious up to 2 days before breaking out with spots, so I do understand her concern & they are going on vacation later this month, which is also a legit concern. Her kid has been vaxed.

My 2 real problems here are that the kids have a recital coming up in a few months & I don't want them to not learn some of what they would be - plus they enjoy class. #2 is that I don't want to pay $66 for March dance class & then miss the first 2-3 weeks of the month even if they aren't sick. The 4th week of the month is spring break, so they potentially could go to only 1 class in March at that rate & I admit that I would resent them missing so many classes for no good reason in my mind.

Feel free to tell me if I am being unreasonable. I don't want to foster ill will btwn me & the other moms, but don't know who should be the one taking her kids out of class (me or her) based on her fears.

[Erin Pavlina]

Well, if it were me, I'd put myself in that other woman's shoes.

If I found out that someone at Emily's school was carrying a contagious disease that I didn't want my daughter exposed to I would hope she would keep her kid home. However, that said, I wouldn't *expect* her to keep her kid at home, I would only wish that she would.

In my opinion, you shouldn't HAVE to keep your daughters out of dance class, but I totally understand where that woman is coming from.

I would go with the Golden Rule on this one. Treat the situation the way you wish the situation would be treated if your positions were reversed. I don't think there's a right answer here.

let us know what you decide to do though. It might help us make a decision later. :)

[kaz]

In the UK there is no chickenpox vaccination - so it's still very common for people to actively encourage their child to catch it.

Nobody would ever expect you to quarantine a child after exposure here - they go to school until they have symptoms and then return when the spots form scabs.

I would take her to dance (and everything else!) so long as she seems healthy.

[Christa]

Kaz,

What you have said was my plan initially b/c I didn't feel that they would present any 'danger' to anyone until they showed symptoms. However, this other mom is obviously not comfortable with this. The only reason that she even knows is that I was discussing the cp exposure with another mom in the class whose kids are also not vaxed - she wants to expose her kids at some point, too. I was just letting her know that, if my kids do come down with cp, she could bring her girls by. The other mom, unfortunately was near-by & heard this.

I did look in my medical books last night & they said that a kid can come down w/ chicken pox anywhere from 1-3 weeks after exposure & the only way to catch it is to touch a blister, or through airbourne droplets from an infectious person who sneezes or coughs. They also said that a person is infectious up to 2 days before spots break out, but s/he will be showing signs of flu-like illness 1-2 days before spots break out - such as fever, headache, etc.

That info makes me feel like they are very unlikely to infect her kid if they are not showing any symptoms, & don't cough or sneeze on her. My dh doesn't think that I should try to change her mind about how "lethal" (her word) they are, though.

He thinks that a compromise is in order - I offer to bring them next week (when it has been barely 6 days since exposure), but not the following week even if they aren't showing any signs of chicken pox. I am pretty sure that she will still resent me if I do that, but I don't want to punish my kids based upon someone else's excessive fears. She has the right to her concerns, but I don't want my kids to suffer based on those concerns. I'm not sure yet, but does that sound reasonable?

[Erin Pavlina]

That sounds reasonable to me. I hope that woman doesn't bother you or make a scene.

[Casey]

So it seems that the earliest your girls might be contagious is around March 7, which means there should be no problem taking them to next week’s dance class. There is also no guarantee that your kids actually have chickenpox, so it seems a little premature for the other mother to worry about them being contagious. You’re also likely to be extra vigilant about watching for the early symptoms and will obviously keep your daughters home if they’re showing any signs. From what I understand you need to be in close contact to catch chickenpox and I’m sure this other mother is going to be telling her kid to stay away from yours, so there’s not likely to be enough contact even if your daughters do happen to go to dance class when they’re most contagious. On top of that, you mentioned that the other child is vaccinated – I’ve read that vaccinated children have only a 30% chance of catching chickenpox if they’re exposed to it and even then the symptoms are very mild, and the combination of the vaccine and the virus actually gives them increased immunity. So, all in all, it seems that the risk to the other child is pretty low and although I can understand the other mother’s concern, I think she may be over-reacting to the situation. If I were in her shoes, I’d educate myself as much as possible about the chances of my daughter getting sick and then if I was still concerned I might keep my daughter home in case she caught something, but I wouldn’t expect everyone else to keep their “potentially contagious” kids home – they’re kids, who knows what the other kids in the class are carrying that she doesn’t know about? So I do think it’s a little unreasonable to expect you to have to keep your kids home for 2 or 3 weeks when they’re not sick.

As for your husband’s suggested compromise – if you think the other mother will still resent you if you bring your daughters to class next week (when there’s no chance of them being contagious), then I wouldn’t worry about trying to appease her and I’d take the girls to class until they show symptoms – no point in making the kids miss the second and third week of class if this woman is going to be angry with you anyway for bringing them next week. In order for her to understand why you believe it’s OK to bring your kids next week, she’ll need to be more educated about her daughter’s risk of getting chickenpox, which means that you kind of do have to try to change her mind about how “lethal” your kids are, even if you decide to go for the compromise. So then you might as well go all the way and try to explain why you think they should attend class until they show symptoms.

One other thing - do you think this other mother would be resentful/paranoid enough to get other mothers to put pressure on you to keep your kids home? If that’s the case, then I guess you’d need to consider whether your children will suffer more if they stay home when they’re not sick or if they go to class and the other mother creates enough ill will that they’re ostracized by the rest of the class. I know that sounds a little extreme, I’m just thinking of the worst case scenario.

Let us know what you decide to do and how it turns out - and if your daughters do actually have chickenpox! :)

[Christa]

The compromise is not going to work. I got a call from the mom earlier this morning in which she screamed at me for 20 minutes. She has contacted an attorney & is threatening to sue me if my children so much as step foot out of our house in the next 3 weeks. She has also spoken w/ a dr & the ifs about it are apparently too much for her.

Both the other mom & I have spoken w/ the director of the dance school who actually wants her baby exposed to cp & thinks that it is the other mom's problem not mine. The director told me that she needs to speak w/ some other people, but she is leaning toward just telling me to bring them & the other mom can skip class if she is that worried. However, the other mom has said that her daughter will be there one way or another. She is also apparently bringing an atty to the next dance class & plans on filing a suit against me if I show up.

My dh, who is a paralegal, thinks that the suit would be frivolous, but I still don't really want to incur legal fees to defend a frivolous suit. We discussed the possibility of making my kids wear masks for the next 3 weeks or me trying to schedule individual make-up classes, which I imagine will be more expensive. The second may be the best solution, though. She doesn't think that her dh would go for her kid being exposed to mine even with masks on.

She is also planning on calling my kids schools, etc. to tell them that I have irresponsibly exposed everyone intentionally to this horrible disease. She was citing all kinds of people getting terrible complications. You can get complications from a cold for goodness sake!

[Casey]

Good grief! It's pretty clear now who the unreasonable one is! I feel sorry for her poor daughter having such a neurotic, irrational, litigious mother - growing up in that house is going to be no fun at all. That mother might as well put her kid in a bubble now and get it over with - there's no way she's going to be able to prevent her kid from ever getting sick and she can't possibly be planning on suing everyone. I'm so sorry that you and your kids are in such an awful situation over a common childhood illness that no one used to think twice about. :(

[Erin Pavlina]

I was afraid something like this might happen.

As much as you want to stand your ground, I'm worried she could call Social Services on you. She's already in a frazzled state and if she's talking lawsuit, she would probably not hesitate to call Social SErvices. And you know what she's going to tell them? That you are out there intentionally trying to inflict your children with a disease and harm other children by exposing them to a contagious disease as well.

And then Social Services will follow up and you could lose your kids. People have lost their kids for less than that, believe me.

As much as you want to stand your ground, and as much as I think you are totally right in wanting to expose your kids to cp right now, you've crossed paths with a crazy woman. Is it worth the risk of losing your kids?

I know people who have had their children forcibly removed from their homes and vaccinated against the parents will before it could all be sorted out.

If it were me, I would disappear from that dance studio and stay as far away from that woman as possible. I don't want to alarm you, but a can of worms is opening up in front of you. Protect your kids!

[Casey]

Oh no, that never even occurred to me! What a society. Erin is right, this woman is crazy and it’s not worth running the risk that she calls Social Services on you. Even though you’re in the right, this may not be a battle worth fighting. I know it’s frustrating to let her “win”, but maybe it’s time to find another dance class and put this whole thing behind you. It’s amazing how quickly a seemingly minor issue can escalate into something so scary.

[Christa]

The director & I are going to have a talk in the morning. My husband says that I ought to sue the mom for harrassment! She plans on having her husband there to physically restrain me from entering the dance studio if I show up.

Although my poor kids will probably have to miss a month of dance class (the next 3 weeks that she is threatening me about) & then the week of March 22nd is spring break, I will not be pulling them out all together.

I spent months looking for this class & it is the only class that works with my older daughter's school schedule. There is no other class available at any dance studio in the entire county that she could go to without missing school to get there. Plus, it is getting into spring, no one is accepting registration this late into the year & my kids want to do the recital. I am going to see if their respective teachers would be willing to have me pay them extra & do maybe 2 individual classes for my girls on an evening or Saturday over the next 3 weeks. That way they wouldn't be totally behind their class mates when it comes to recital time.

It is obviously going to be totally difficult to sit out in the waiting area with this lunatic for the next 2 months of dance class once this is all over, but I don't think that my girls will be uncomfortable in their classes & that is certainly more important than a little discomfort on my part in having to run into the nut lady!

The thing that is also disappointing to me is that the mom whom I initially told b/c her kids aren't vaxed & I thought she might want to expose her kids, has joined together with the lunatic mom in insisting that I am in the wrong. They are both saying that I didn't think this through & they don't want their kids exposed to mine. The mom of the non-vaxed kids isn't threatening legal action, but I am truly disappointed in her response. I thought better of her, especially since she had mentioned wanting to do the same thing that I did in the past.

[Erin Pavlina]

Oh, wow, that sucks that the other mom turned on you. She is the "witness" in this case too. If that lunatic mom wanted to make life difficult for you with Social Services, the witness mother could have stood with you, but it sounds like she would just add fuel to their fire.

Just be careful, whatever you do. I'm sorry you have to go through this.

[Christa]

I guess that at least the studio director is my witness in that the crazy mom has also threatened her with legal action if she allows my kids to come to class.

[alexis]

wow that mom sure sounds crazy....i remember when a kid in my cousin's nursery class caught chicken pox, all the moms of the other kids in the same class started taking leave from work to prepare for their kids catching chicken pox as well...but if she doesn't want her daughter exposed, why doesn't she just vaccinate the kid and be done with it? Isn't that the whole point of the vaccination? Why does she have to make life difficult for you with all the threats?

[kaz]

This woman sounds crazy. I can't believe someone would go as far as legal action over chickenpox.

I'm sorry this has happened to you - I just hope now that your little ones make a quick recovery if and when they do get chickenpox! It should be easier for you if they get it the same time - one of my daughters friends came to her third birthday party with chickenpox (we had okayed this) and my daughter came down with it about a week after (they had played together before the party) . My older son didn't come down with it until 2 weeks after - so it seemed like they were sick for ages!

[Christa]

Alexis, actually the looney mom's kid is vaccinated for chicken pox. She is worried that the kid will catch it anyway & die. The other mom's kids are not vaxed & she doesn't want them exposed knowingly b/c her younger child is only 10 months old, but at least she is not threatening to sue me over it.

My husband said that he ought to paint himself with pink spots & go down there during dance class this week & cough all over everyone :). I guess that we just have a vindictive side to us! - He won't really do this, of course, but it would be funny.

[aspiringvegan]

Christa, I am really sorry you have to go through this. I work with kids and have seen some uptight, overprotective parents, but this takes the cake.

I have heard from several sources that it is actually better to not vax against chicken pox, let your kid get it over with and get some immunity. I wonder if this woman realizes that by vaxing her kids, not letting them have any exposure and I would assume not vaxing after they are late teens/adults, she is increasing the likelyhood that her dear ones will get this "disease" later in life when it actually is quite dangerous? Please, anyone, correct me if I am wrong, but that is what I have heard.

Also, I was a young child just before the vaccine was required. I had chicken pox at age 6 or 7. It lasted about a week. Pretty much every kid I knew had them at one point. I don't remember anyone making a big deal out of it. It was like a rite of passage...something that all kids just got. No big deal. It's amazing the paradigm shift that can take place over a few short years. I pray that this woman doesn't follow through with her threats and that your kids can go about their lives like normal children.

[Erin Pavlina]

You're right. Immunity doensn't last for life, making the kids susceptible to worse problems by getting it later.

From what I've read and heard, the CP vaccine became required because too many parents were taking sick days to stay home wiht their kids. It was hurting that national economy, so... voila... mandatory vaccine.

[Casey]

Maybe I'm just too cynical, but I keep wondering if this crazy mother would be pitching such a fit if she wasn't going on vacation soon. I can just hear her saying to her husband, "I don't care what I have to do, but I'm not letting that woman bring her diseased kids to dance class and have them ruin my vacation!". It's just too inconvenient to ever let your kids get sick.

OK, I'm going to be more charitable and believe that she's really overly neurotic about her daughter's health.

[MrsKey]

Wouldn't it be ironic if her kids got CP from someone at school who assumed that the flu like symptoms were "nothing major" and sent their kids to school anyway?

I'm sorry to say this but what a idiot lunatic.

I am so glad my dd got a good healthy case of CP before the vaccine was required so we never had to worry about it.

I've read a lot lately about needed to be sure that you get a "booster" much like tetnus shots. How many in their late teens 10 - 12 years from now won't get the booster and then will contract CP as an adult and have some extremely serious complications?

Scary and sad.

I am so sorry that this woman is making your life so difficult.

[vegma]

Christa, did your girls ever get chicken pox? If so, how are they doing? Someone in our homeschool group just posted that they have CP at their house, and they're opening their doors to anyone wanting exposure! I don't quite know how I want to handle this, but we've all been/are sick, so I'm thinking this isn't a good time... Anyway hope your girls are doing well:)

[Christa]

I thought that they might be coming down with it a little over a week ago b/c they were both a bit sick, but it turned out just to be a sore throat & cold-type of thing. Neither of them ever got cp &, since it has been over 3 1/2 weeks at this point, I am assuming that they are not going to.

My girls got one 1/2 hour make-up class for the 2 weeks of class that they missed (2 hours of classes). I brought them back to class last week on week 3. This week is spring break, so there is no class & then we are back to normal the following week.

I guess that I'll just have to wait until next time that someone comes down with chicken pox. I am hoping that they get it within the next year b/c my older daughter is 5 1/2 now & I would rather she not be too old when she does get it. Chicken pox is most common in late winter & early spring, though, so we may have to wait until next year.

I did talk to the health dept here & they said that there are no restrictions on children who have been exposed to chicken pox, but are showing no symptoms, going anywhere that they would like. The PH nurse said that anyone who would suggest quarantining a child w/ cp exposure is a lunatic :)!

[vegma]

Thanks for the update:) I don't think there was ever any question that the person you were dealing with was a "lunatic":p

[Jenica]

Jeez, what a looney! I just now read this thread...and man, I thought my parents were overprotective as I was growing up. I just have to say, as someone who was intentionally not exposed to kids with chicken pox as a kid, I wish I had been.

I caught them at 15 and it was a nightmare. I was flat on my back for almost two weeks and they were so much like acne that I couldn't keep myself from picking at them (teenagers being the way they are...). I have some horrible scars to show for the experience. I couldn't imagine any caring mother wanting so much for her children not to get chicken pox as children that she'd put them through that or worse later in life.

[PikkuMyy]

I agree with Jessica.

I hadn't had them by the time I was 16 and so I gave them to myself on purpose. I was worried about getting them when I was older or...pregnant!

I was babysitting for this family and both boys came down with it. I was scheduled to babysit so I went anyway and made sure to give them lots of hugs and dance, etc. so that I would be exposed. I was, and boy was it he**! I also had a lot and I picked them with scars to this day. I had to get meds from the Dr. because they itched so much I would sleep with socks on my hands and wake up having taken them off in my sleep, scratching.

Thank god I didn't get it later in life. What a crazy woman! I'm sure she was just worried about her vacation. It's almost surreal that she is acting as if you were going to bring your children to school with Bubonic Plague (which by the way is easily treatable these days) in the 1300s. I think a CP vaccine is a really silly idea. Especially if it wears off and then you are more likely to get Shingles later in life. My dad had it and was bedridden for months!

On that pleasant note...

Emily

[Christa]

Well, this is a really old thread, but I had to resurrect it b/c of an update. Angelina (who is now in first grade) had a substitute teacher today. I knew that there would be a sub.

When I went to drop her off, I was waiting outside of the door for the teacher to open the door & let her in. The door opens, & you won't believe who the sub was... crazy lady who was going to sue us, attack us if we showed up in dance class, etc. She smirked at me when she saw me.

Angelina went in w/ the rest of the kids & then I got the smirk. There was no way that I was going to leave her in the care of this lunatic, so I marched right into the office, explained the whole situation & told them that I would be taking my daughter home immediately. We did "home school" today. The kids had fun & it was in no way the school's fault that they had a nut case for a sub, but I am hoping that they will never hire her again.

I am contemplating contacting the district & explaining the situation & suggesting that I do not think that the woman is stable enough to be entrusted with children. I'll think it over.

BTW, my kids still haven't gotten chicken pox.

[MrsKey]

Oh wow, Christa!

What are the odds?!? Geez. I don't envy you that surprise this morning.

I think you did the right thing by taking your dd home - but I don't know that I'd say anything to the school district in a way that can be attributed to you. If they tell her who made the complaint you could be opening yourself up for another round of "nutjobsRus".

[Christa]

Originally posted by MrsKey
If they tell her who made the complaint you could be opening yourself up for another round of "nutjobsRus".

I know & I think that this is the same reason that I dropped it without getting too vindicitive the first time around, but I am almost not proud of how easily I backed down before. I wish that I had contacted the police to report her threats last year.

[MrsKey]

Originally posted by Christa
I know & I think that this is the same reason that I dropped it without getting too vindicitive the first time around, but I am almost not proud of how easily I backed down before. I wish that I had contacted the police to report her threats last year.

I see your point.

I guess I just tend to err on the side of not geting tangled up with people who are obviously not very stable.

Especially when there's no indication that it would make a difference. Like last year - I don't think the police would have done anything since her threats weren't of a physical nature.

Don't you just wish you have people like that locked up or forcibly medicated? :D

[Christa]

Yes, I do :p !

She did issue some threats that I viewed as physical in nature, but I guess that they were vague. She stated that I had "better not show up because [her] husband was going to be there & [I] would be very sorry if I did." She went on to state that "this is not just a threat." I took that to mean that they would physically assault or restrain me if I attempted to enter the dance studio.

[MrsKey]

Originally posted by Christa
Yes, I do :p !

She did issue some threats that I viewed as physical in nature, but I guess that they were vague. She stated that I had "better not show up because [her] husband was going to be there & [I] would be very sorry if I did." She went on to state that "this is not just a threat." I took that to mean that they would physically assault or restrain me if I attempted to enter the dance studio.

WOW - What a lunatic!

I'm glad you took your daughter home and I'm glad you told the principal why!

[vegma]

Scary!

Hmmm, you were looking for career direction recently - could homeschooling be the answer?!