Small vegan/ near vegan babies?

[sharon]

Hi,

Reading the active threads on healthy, but tiny tiny tots, I wonder if vegan (or near vegan) babies tend to be lower in weight than average. And, if so, if this is a problem.

The growth charts are based upon averages (at least the old ones), rather than upon what is best. Is anyone aware of research on this?

My <18lb one year old is the picture of health, and hardly looks skinny to me, or to most other observers. He eats great, but most of the food is high in fiber and low in fat. I suspect he does not get as many calories as most American babies.
( He is not 100% vegan, but is a vegetarian and pretty close to vegan.)

I don't think we should fault the doctors for being concerned about low weight kids. They are trained to look for this, and there are often issues with kids in the lowest percentiles and those who don't keep pace with their growth curve. However, it may be that babies eating a healthy vegan vegan diet are thinner than average...and still at least as healthy.

[feline01]

An important thing to remember is that those growth charts are developed by the formula companies and are based on formula-fed babies (though some docs have charts for breastfed babies). Many vegan children are breastfed or, like mine, breastfed and supplemented with soy formula.

From seeing what many parents feed their kids, most vegan children I know eat much more fiber and less empty calories so that would cause a weight difference among the populations.

Anyway, doesn't really matter as long as our kids are happy, healthy and reaching their developmental milestones. :)

[xmysticprincessx]

dont forget genetics! if you and the child's father are both small, then the child will most likely be small. i know that dh and i are shorter than the avg american.

[sharon]

True enough, mystic princess. I know that my kids come from a long line of short people on both sides of the family. However, that raises a few more questions.

Are vegans and vegan sympathizers (or at least those on this board) disproportionately short? Are veg children of parents that are not especially short still unusually low weight?

Feline1, I tend to agree with you that it's a non-issue if our babies are happy and healthy and hitting developmental milestone normally. However, as my pediatrician put it, even if the baby is doing well so far, you want to make sure the baby does not start to have problems because of an insufficient diet.

I'm not terribly concerned about my baby's size, nor is my pediatrician for that matter. However, if it is in fact the case that vegan/near vegan babies are smaller than average that would be interesting, and perhaps helpful, to know.

[mckennasmom]

I have been following all this and been very interested. I wonder if your vegan babies (I didn't go veg till DD was 2.5 plus DH is omni and so she chooses whose meal or portion to eat so I can't speak about my own child), would be considered "normal" size if you went back about 30 or more years. Children seem to be much bigger now, height and weight and many mature much earlier and many adults are overweight as we know except in my veg group I belong to I notice that the ones who eat very healthy vegan diets are quite slim and then ones who still eat junk might have a little extra weight but are no where near my omni junk a holic friends in the weight arena because my vegan "junk eating" friends are quite active. I think if they are healthy, happy, reaching milestones, and seem intelligent then what's the worry. I worry more about the kids I see in a kindergarten class who are malnutritioned and pale or who are so overweight they can't sit criss, cross, applesauce. Just my thoughts. :)

[annie7]

Good observation! Not to mention 30 years ago it was "the norm" to breast feed exclusively as long as possible.

[vegma]

Dh and I are 6' tall and slim (and in our 40's). After about 3 months, ds climbed into the 90-95th percentile on the height/weight charts and has stayed there (he's 5.5+ years now). He's tall and slim for his age.

Oh yeah, most definitely breastfed!

[Christa]

I don't know whether I have seen any studies that looked at whether vegan infants were smaller or thinner than average. That would be an interesting study. I have seen some that found vegan children (older than toddlers) are generally thinner than average, but that it was not problematic.

In our case, my husband's family is short b/c they are little Italian people and they are most definately not vegan (dh is not either). My mother's family (also Italian) is also rather short, but my father's is pretty average. I am the only vegan in the bunch & pretty average sized (5'4", 115-117 lbs.) - maybe a bit thinner than average, I guess.

My girls were both born fairly large (8lbs. 1oz. and 8lbs. 3ozs.) and stayed up at the top of the growth charts for some time. DD #1 was in the 90-99th percentile of everything until about 2 y/o when she started dropping to closer to her genetic potential. At nearly 7 she is in about the 45th to 50th percentile for height and weight (very proportional). However, she looks much thinner than many of her peers b/c a lot of them are quite chubby. Since she is proportional for height & weight I can only assume that many of her friends are higher in weight than height on the charts.

My younger dd was up at the top of the charts until closer to 9 months- 1 y/o. She is now in about the 5th percentile for height and 25th for weight and has been there for some time (she'll be 5 in two months). She is built exactly like dh who is 5'6' and a bit round. Hopefully she will be thinner than dad, though and I imagine that her veggie diet will be helpful in that regard.

I'm just chiming in that not all vegan/vegetarian children and infants are small and mine were bf for years, too for what it's worth.

[Zoesmama]

My dd is in high end of height but her weight is in low end and has dropped in %ile according to her ped.(see low weight post)

I think the charts are WAY off. My dd eats plenty but also was drinking 32 ounces of soy milk a day still. I have been cutting her back and her ped recommended no more than 24 ounces and to make sure she gets lots of foods. She eats great but prefers fruits, veggies to most things.

But its odd her height is off the charts usually. And I agree I think the charts are based on averages not what is ideal.

Average today in children is obese atleast according to new studies that find rates are near 50% on obesity in children. How can we go by a chart that is based on average when avearge has jumpt to unhealthy levels. :( Sad sad and its all the diet and lack of activity. I do NOT want my dd learning those ways. I'm quite pleased she is tall and lean as I myself am overweight and grew up on that same high fat highly processed diet and less activity(I did go outside ALOT though never been into much tv) than should be getting.

Also she doesn't look small really. Most people think she is older when they see her. She has skinny arms but chubby thighs and pot belly hardly skinny.

[Christa]

Originally posted by Zoesmama
I think the charts are WAY off. ... And I agree I think the charts are based on averages not what is ideal.

Average today in children is obese atleast according to new studies that find rates are near 50% on obesity in children. How can we go by a chart that is based on average when avearge has jumpt to unhealthy levels. :( Sad sad and its all the diet and lack of activity.
I was told that the charts had not been adjusted to reflect the average overweight kid now a days. Actually dd #1 is right about at the 50th percentile for height & weight & she doesn't have an ounce of fat on her that I can see. She, too, prefers fruits, and water over high fat foods. She will be 7 in a month and weighs 45 lbs and is approx. 48-49 inches tall. You can actually see all of the muscles in her stomach; I wish that I had a stomach like that!

My point is not to argue, just to point out that kids at the center of the charts are not fat. Many of the kids in dd's first grade class last year were about her height and weighed btwn 55-75 lbs. (the teacher had me weighing them for id cards). They must have been off the top of the charts on weight!

That is not to say that those who are thinner than tall on the charts necessarily have anything wrong with them, either. We are all just built differently and being thin isn't a bad thing as long as the child is developing fine.

[NZ mum]

My oldest daughter (3 years old) is in the lowest 15% on the chart. She is active and healthy but I do stress about her size on and off, mainly when I have people commenting on how small she is. Both my partner and I are average height. One thing that puts my mind at rest a bit is one of her best friends who is an omnivore is pretty much the exact same size as her. They are both the two little shrimps at Kindergarten.
My youngest daughter who is one year old, has so far been following the same growth curve her older sister. But I have a feeling when I next measure her she'll be a bit bigger than her sister at the same age.
Hmmm yeah but they are both very healthy, active and alert so I suppose I shouldn't worry. Though I occasionally stress when thinking of their diets in relation to fat content and keeping those calories up. Especially as my oldest isn't much of an eater.
Geez hope that contributed something to the discussion?

[avocado]

My vegan child (3) is about 50% height 25%weight and 75% head size - I suppose this averages out at average! I still breastfeed. I read somewhere (???WHERE??? sorry! ) that vegan children normally grow (heightwise) slightly slower than omni BUT grow for longer, steadier - not such big growth spurts (around puberty particularly), have later onset of menstruation (a good thing for many many reasons, namely Breast cancer, PMS, Hard menopauses etc.) AND catch up to their peers in the end. They are usually lighter and healthier. I worried when he was little but don't even weigh him at all now (so those stats are probably six months old)

[Janine]

Our 2.5 year old is very tall; 37". She's been in the 95th percentile or higher all her life. I and my husband are both average height. She is slim, though. I think she's in the 30th percentile or so. When breastfed she was very fat, but she's just not into food that much. So I wonder if it's just your perception that vegan kids are smaller (at least I hope so!).
Janine

[LaraK]

Not all vegan bubs are smaller/thinner. My 14 month old boy has always been exactly 50% or higher for weight/height etc. Some of his omni friends have always been quite small when compared, about 5%.
I have made an effort to make sure Baxter is getting plenty of good fats, some higher calorie snacks ie dried fruit, and some lower fibre carbs ie pasta/noodles. It helps that he's a pretty enthusiastic eater and still b/f 3xday.

[SheilaKy]

In addition to being vegan I think it is the dairy formula making those babies so much bigger and chunkier...


I work at a hospital daycare...I am in the nursury...I have 10 infants ranging from 3 months to 1 year...Out of 10 infants 6 are breastfed....The other 4 are formula fed...The children who are formula fed are 3 months,6 months,2- 5 month olds. these children are so chunky and roly-poly they have a hard time reaching milestones like sitting up...They are crankier..(with the exception of 1) and they spit up a lot...

The children that are breastfed are rolling over,pushing up on their hands with no problem and have very little spit up..

I compared 2 children in my room..They are born 3 days apart...2 girls...Both are 3 months...

The breastfed girl is trim and when I put her on the floor she pushes herself up with her hands and stares straight at you..She is rolling over...When I stand her on my lap she stands straight up and holds her shape while we talk and hold a 4 minute conversation back and forth(of course I am holding her under her arms)...

The formula fed girl is twice the weight of the other girl(both moms are very petite by the way)..She can barely hold her head up when I put her on her belly and she can't push up on her hands yet...She can't roll over at all..She spits up all the time..She will talk to me when I cuddle her but she can't tolerate standing in my lap yet..Her legs can't support her...

I have two boys that are also the same age and have similar reports between the formula and breastfed one...The formula fed boy is so chunky that at 5 months he is in a size 5 diaper and his pudge just spills out over his socks..I am trying to encourage him to sit up on his own and so far he bends over and his face turns bright red...THe other boy is sitting up...

I know it isn't fair to compare children but when I see such a vast comparision between the kids in my room it sets me to wondering about dairy formula...One of the main ingredients in most of them is corn syrup and we all know how bad that is...


Just some of my insights to seeing it right in my classroom...


Love sheila xx

[Jergisen]

Most vegan babies are breastfed, most breastfed babies weigh less than formula-fed babies because they regulate their own hunger, most formula-fed babies are overfed and are overweight, and the charts are based on formula-fed babies.

It also depends on the child's eating habits. My kids are in different "percentiles" and the second one is picky but so was I, and still am.

But I do take my pediatrician's concerns seriously which is why I do give them dairy products minimally and am phasing them into veganism as their reportoires expand naturally.

Geez, wasn't that wordy?


jules

And yes Avocado, you are correct ;)

[kjmckenzie]

It sounds to me that some of you are worried that your kids are at a disadvantage being vegan as opposed to their omni peers. That makes it seems like you agree that eating meat and dairy is better for your kids. It is hard to keep your head up above the noise and not let doctors and others make you doubt your convictions.

I don't worry at all about the percentiles because I know that we eat really healthily and that our vegan, organic diet is the best there is, no matter what doctors (who I've heard only have to take one nutrition class in all of their education) think. I feel that I know way more about nutrition than the average doctor since I read tons of books on the subject. I plan on reading that book on how to raise a healthy child in spite of your doctor (I think that is what its called) because that is how I feel a lot of the time! I have a similar issue with vaccines, you listen to everyone and begin to doubt yourself and the decision you've made.

So, remind yourself to be confident that breastfeeding and the vegan diet (properly done with lots of variety) is the best thing for your kids, throw out all those charts and go by your child's health and happiness :)

Oh- and even with my doctor bashing, I must say that I had a really great experience with a new pediatrician (I was recommended by a doctor who thought my large breastfed baby (breastfed babies can be fat too by the way :)) had too big a head based on those damn percentiles. I wasn't worried at all, but had to go of course, but I planned that I would not submit to any crazy testing, since my baby is happy and healthy.

But surprise, surprise I had a great pediatrician (from another culture, so that could be why he reacted differently to most Western born doctors) who went by my answers that the baby was great, and trusted my opinion on whether or not I was worried, who did a basic exam and told me we would watch his head size and not do any tests at this point.

Then I met this woman who had no confidence in her feelings on her child's large head based of course on percentiles, who went to a doctor who made her travel and do catscans (I don't know how to spell that) etc., made her wait four months for the results, and she worried constantly, and at the end of the day, the baby was fine and had a big head, like her husband had when he was a baby.

So I say all of this not to say don't get medical attention when you need it, but you see your child all the time, a doctor sees them for 10 minutes at a time. So don't go by percentiles, but trust yourself. You will know when something is wrong. And if you feed your child a healthy vegan diet, they will grow according to their genetic height!

[celtic-womble]

My DS brings up the average weight of vegan babes quite nicely! He's just over 3 months, almost 16lbs and 26" long and fully breastfed.