Infant-Toddler Vegan Diet

[Jennifer]

Hello,

My name is Jennifer. I just ran across this website this morning. Boy am I glad I did. I have two children (my son just turned 3 and my daugher just turned 1). They are both very happy, healthy children. My son has been vegan for his entire life. My husband and I, having been raised as meat eaters, are on the road to becoming vegan, but it is taking some time. My daughter has also been vegan to date (this is the easy part since she is still breastfeeding and I just add some vegetables, fortified cereal, fruit, etc...). Anyway...I took both kids for their annual check-ups yesterday. My son was in the 90th percentile for his height and weight. My daughter was in the 90th percentile for her height but only in the 75th to 90th percentile for her weight. Their doctor asked about the kids' diets. I had always kind of avoided talking to her about their diets because she is not very friendly (our insurance is very limiting as far as doctors, and as long as she looks after their medical needs, I can put up with her). She brought up the subject of meat and dairy for my daughter. I told her that I don't feed my children those things. She then appeared to get a little upset with me and ordered blood tests to check both children for anemia (results pending). The bottom line here is that she told me I should really start feeding the kids more protein, including eggs and she really didn't lend any support to a vegan lifestyle. I feel that I have sufficiently (though maybe not as thoroughly as some) researched this type of diet and I feel that I am feeding my children properly. However, now I worry that I am not feeding them the things they might truly need. In addition to the foods I've just mentioned, I also feed my children flax meal, wheat germ and ground nuts (all mixed with their food), calcium fortified soy yogurt, whole wheat pasta, whole wheat bread, avocado (and things like Veggie Booty, sulphur free dried fruit and spelt sesame sticks as snacks). I try my best to feed them the least refined foods possible and try to avoid prepared foods (aside from their ocassional snacks). Does anyone have suggestions for other high protein, higher fat foods that my kids might like and that are not refined or prepared (basically a "raw" food)? Any help would be appreciated. But...even if no one responds, I feel much better being able to vent. My husband is fairly supportive but still thinks I'm being mean from time to time. I just want to help my kids avoid some of today's common problems like diabetes, obesity, etc... Thank you, Jennifer

[Erin Pavlina]

Jennifer, you're not alone. A lot of people end up with unsupportive doctors who suggest they feed their children poison.. er, I mean meat and/or dairy products. There's a fine line between taking a stand and being too acquiescent.

For example, some moms might have vehemently declined the blood tests, and as a result the doctor could have called social services (don't think this doesn't happen, because it most certainly does).

On the other hand, agreeing to too many medical tests isn't such a great idea either. You don't want the doctor to run roughshod over you.

the ideal situation is to get a doctor who is comfortable with your lifestyle/diet. If there is anyone else you can take your kids to, you should seriously look into that.

Your diet sounds fine to me. A couple of books I'll recommend that you may have already read, but just in case, these will help give you ammunition and information to answer any questions posed to you.

Becoming Vegan by Brenda Davis and Vesanto Melina This book has detailed information about nutrition. I highly recommend reading it and having it on your bookshelf for reference.

My book, Raising Vegan Children in a Non-Vegan World, has detailed information about how to handle doctors, family, and friends who oppose your lifestyle. It's a great book to prepare yourself to face future challenges as your children get older. You can learn more about the book and order online here (http://www.vegfamily.com/raising-vegan-children/index.php?src=forumpost)

For protein foods, I would serve a lot of tofu, legumes, and bean products. Remember, protein is usually more than sufficient in people's diets. For kids, I get more worried about calcium, omega-3s, and iron than I do about protein.

Let us know what the results of the blood test are.

[Jennifer]

Thank you for your support and response. The doctor, herself, called me early this evening. She told me that my son's blood tests came back fine but that my daughter was borderline for having anemia. She suggested that I give my daughter orange juice when I give her iron fortified cereal. She told me that the vitamin C should increase the absorption of the iron. She then told me that I should have my daughter's blood tested again in about 6 months. I could try the addition of orange juice but I think that the combination of breastmilk, cereal and the juice all in one meal (certainly not all together-but all in her stomach at once) might cause somewhat of a sour stomach. I think I can probably increase her foods in other areas to boost her iron without adding the orange juice. I'll give it a try anyway. As far as the calcium and omega 3...I believe I've read that flax has omega 3 in it but I'll do some more checking. Her cereal is fortified with calcium and soon I'll probably start her on the same calcium fortified soy yogurt that my son is on (it supplies 50% of an adult's daily calcium). I will check on the books you mentioned because more information would certainly be helpful. I think most all of the doctors available on our insurance plan are going to be about like our current doctor, but I could sure call and poll them to see how receptive they are to vegan lifestyles. Once again, thank you for your response and helpful suggestions.

[Erin Pavlina]

Jennifer, what soy yogurt are you guys eating? I haven't seen one that was fortified with that much calcium. Whole Soy, which we eat, has 8% calcium.

[Jennifer]

Hello,

I've been using Silk Cultured Soy for about 2 years. It has worked pretty well for us and my son seems to enjoy it.

[Christa]

Stonyfield Farm's O'Soy comes in a six pack of 4 oz. soy yogurts & each 4 oz. serving has 10% of your dv for calcium (keeping in mind that this is 10% of an adults daily value.) It is some of the best soy yogurt that I have tasted.

Also, you may want to check out books by Michael Klapper, MD. I believe that he has some about children & veganism. If I am remembering the title correctly, "Pregnancy, children, and the vegan diet" may be a good one to support you.

As far as your daughter being in the 90th percentile for height &70th for weight, that is totally normal. My neighbor's daughter who eats meat, whole milk & a bunch of other stuff that your dr may be wanting you to add is in the 50th percentile for height & 5th for weight. That may just be where your daughter is supposed to be - it's not really a huge discrepancy btwn her height & weight. It's not like she is in the 90th for height & 10th for weight. Her size at age one is not really a good indication of how tall, heavy, thin or whatever she will be.

My older daughter was always in the 95th or above for the first 2 yrs (while vegan). She is now 4 1/2 & about 50th for height & a little below for weight. My ped (who is very supportive), says that she is just getting closer to her genetic potential. I am 5'4" & 112 lbs. & her dad is only 5'6".

My younger child has been in the 20th percentile for height & weight since she was one. But, given the size of most of our family members, she is probably going to be short no matter what we feed her. Both girls do eat some dairy now (as a compromise w/ my husband) & the younger one eats non stop. She just has a good metabolism, I guess!

[Christa]

Incidentally, my younger daughter's iron levels came back "borderline" at 9 months, too. When I asked for the actual # & not just their interpretation, it was within the normal range, just on the low end. My nurse at the drs office told me that I should be formula feeding instead of breastfeeding b/c my milk was inadequate b/c I was vegan!

That is when we changed to our current dr. They have never even checked her iron level.

[Jennifer]

Christa,

Thank you for the information about the percentiles. I really thought that my daughter looked fine, but the doctor always manages to put doubts in my mind about one thing or another. I've had good luck with the Silk yogurt but it is sometimes hard to find at the health food store. I think I've seen the brand you mentioned so that will be a good one to keep in mind. Thanks again.

[Christa]

The unfortunate thing for most vegan parents is that drs can put a lot of doubt in your minds & try to make you feel like they know more.

I feel like I am given a bit more leeway & respect than most b/c I am "one of them" to an extent. I work at our local hospital very part time teaching drs & medical professionals about basic life support techniques & have a Masters degree in Public Health (health education). I also worked with our local Early Head Start program developing child development curricula.

If doctors or nurses get too opinionated with me, I just remind them that I usually have as much education as they do in child development and am capable of evaluating the research to see if they are reading it properly. My mother tells me that I should have been a lawyer b/c I am so stubborn & argumentative when someone disagrees with me about something on which I have a strong opinion. :) !

[Erin Pavlina]

Christa, you go girl!

I gotta try the Silk yogurt.

[Jennifer]

Hearing about your background makes me extra glad for your support and advice. I feel like I have a pretty good handle on most things but there is still lots for me to learn. My family sees me as the odd one of the bunch but I don't mind as long as my children have a better chance for a healthy future.

I'd be curious to hear opinions about the Silk yogurt. I had to ask my local health food store several times before they got some in stock. Before that, we were chasing it all over town, driving as long as an hour each way to get it. Now, they have it in stock most every time I go in, and they finally brought it down to a decent price. Some stores had been charging as much as $1.29 per 6 ounce container and now I can get it for about .89 cents per container. It doesn't sound like such a big deal, but it adds up when you are using one (and soon to be two) every day.

[vegma]

We like the Silk yogurt too. The 2 lb. size is more economical than the little tubs (although I've forgotten the price). It says 70% calcium for an 8 oz serving.

[Jennifer]

Do they have different flavors in the larger size, or just the plain variety?

[vegma]

I've only seen it in vanilla and plain. My little one likes the plain and sometimes we spruce it up by adding fruit or berries to it.

[girlzmommy00]

Another idea for iron is grits. Grits is just a corn product that is quite high in iron. My girls like it for breakfast. And check the labels on some cereals, some are quite high in iron as well. Stephanie

[go4green]

Hi,
I recently had an extremely similar experience...I took my daughter to her 9 month visit, and the Dr. was really put off by my vegan diet ( I breast feed and fed Elle fruit and veggies only until this point). I allowed her to do the pin prick to test for iron and it came up on the low side 9.9. I was not very worried because my daughter, Elle (21pounds 30"), had just recently became very interested in food and she loves steamed beets! So, I feel her levels will come up now that she is eating on her own more. Since she was 9 months, I did decide to start a iron fortified rice cereal by earth's best. I was originally going to wait to start any grain, (so I guess the Dr. scared me a little) but it seems to be going well. I have read that any type/form of vitamin C before the iron source will increase the absorbtion of the iron. For us a slice of citrus or C fortified fruit about 20 min before the iron food is working well, I was able to keep MY iron levels up this way during the pregnancy.

I also read that green veggies are a great form of calcium, in addition to any fortified soy products you may be using, but look into blanching your spinach for 10-15 seconds to get rid of any acid in the spinach and increase iron absorption.

I still can't get over how upset I was after the Dr. visit, I really felt of all people I should be able to talk to my Dr. and because she was so closed off about what I feel is the best lifestyle ever, it makes me not trust the Dr. about anything. So I am glad I found this group, everyone seems so informative and caring, thanks sooooo much for sharing. I don't feel so alone anymore.
~Jenna Boudreau

[Erin Pavlina]

Hi Jenna,

I felt the same way during my first pregnancy. I proudly told my doctor of my vegan diet. Boy was that a mistake! The doctors in this practice treated me like I was on a religious fad diet, deliberately trying to harm my baby, etc. They sent a psychologist in to question me to make sure I wasn't a threat to my unborn baby. Lordy.

I finally learned over time that my vegan lifestyle is not a doctor's business. I mean, do omnivores go up to their docs and say, "Oh, and I wanted to mention so that you're aware... we eat meat and dairy products. You may want to note that in the chart."

If a doctor asks, I tell them. But doctors never ask me what our diet consists of. Probably because they don't think it has anything to do with health.

[Lucy S]

I never thought it was expected that a babies height and weight percentiles would match. The issue, as far as I know, is to see that the baby continues along the path they started (i.e. weight stays at around the same percentile). My daughter (13 mo.), has always had a high height (~90+ percentile), but weight around 25-50th percentile. She has inherited my small frame, it is quite apparent when she is compared to other babies. Her weight is consistently in the same range, so I haven't had any comments yet.

We do get asked, at her "well baby" check ups about what she is eating. There is a form/list that (of course) includes eggs, dairy, meat. I have been honest and said no to these when asked. We go to a family practice clinic and don't always see the same doctor. Our veganism generally hasn't been a problem. The dr. we saw for her one year check up said that it was okay for now because she is still nursing, but down the road there would be some nutrients we would need to worry about. I felt like saying to him "Yup, and I know exactly which ones you are going to say - B12, calcium, iron. I probably know more about nutrition than you do, and especially about vegan diets.". Otherwise, the doctors have been neutral. I even asked about vitamins for her at one point because she was teething up a storm and not eating much solid food (around 10 months old). The doctor said I shouldn't worry, as long as she was nursing and to just try to give her different foods each time she would eat - even if it was just a little bit. She knew we were vegans.

I don't, quite honestly, see what the big deal is. I think that as long as you have educated yourself, know which nutrients to be on the look out for, do some investigating on what the best sources are, you should be okay. There are lots of fortified vegan foods now, with calcium, b12 and vit. D. Iron is found in lots of vegan foods - soy products, lentils, chickpeas and other beans, greens, etc. Some extra fat in a babies diet is good (avocados are a fave around here). Abby has been healthier than her meat and dairy eating little friends. I wish omnis were told to investigate and plan their childrens diets as carefully as we vegans are expected to (and should - I think everyone should take more care with their diets). Kids would be much healthier if their parents took the necessary time and energy to learn about nutrition.

Sorry for the long post! I have even more to say, but I'll stop there. Lucy

[Erin Pavlina]

Well said, Lucy!

And by all means, don't stop there. :)

We're all ears.

[go4green]

Thanks Erin, Thanks Lucy, Thanks Jennifer!
I will post a new thread to intro myself, since I just found this group yesterday.
~Jenna Boudreau;)

[Fiona]

It's funny that for the first few years of life, we (well, society, health professionals etc) are so concerned about babies putting on 'enough' weight and a few years later, too much weight becomes an issue.

I have a 3 and a half week old son (breastfed) who is growing at an incredible rate - he was 7lbs 6 oz at birth (25th percentile), and now weighs 11lbs (91st percentile). I am not advertising the fact that he is vegan to the health professionals because I feel it isn't an issue - as has been said already, I believe that vegans who have done their research are likely to know far more about a vegan diet than doctors and even dieticians.


Fiona

[Lucy S]

I agree that (at least most of us) know more about vegan diets than professionals do. I wouldn't, certainly, advise anyone to be a vegan without doing some research, but on the other hand, I so much wish that omnis did ANY research into proper diets. Imagine how much less illness (and few McDonald's) there would be!

My continuing semi-rant from earlier would be about the horrid food I see people buying at grocery stores, obviously intended for their children's lunch boxes. "Fruit" drink (made of sugar, water, chemicals, oh and a bit of juice), deli meat, commercial cookies, etc. And maybe they have some iceberg lettuce (well wrapped in plastic) for their dinner. Yum. And I'm the one with a suspect diet?!

I know, first hand, how healthful a vegan diet can be and how adequate, even when dealing with anemia. I hemorrhaged after giving birth and lost quite a bit of blood. Of course, I became significantly anemic. I had a midwife-assisted birth (midwives are regulated and covered under our provincial health plan), and she was - from day one- fine with my being a vegan. It came up at our initial visit, I told her I had done some reading about vegan pregnancy and that was that. She had no qualms or hesitation. At one point in my pregnancy, it was recommended that I take some iron supplements (by a hematologist - that's another story). My midwife recommended some vegetable-based ones (in veggie caps) that she had had success with, rather than taking "regular" iron supplements. They didn't bother me at all. Well, to try to keep this story at a reasonable length, after I hemorrhaged, the OB I saw prescribed some astronomical amount of iron supplements (I think 800-900 mg/day), and of course also wrote out a script for something to deal with the constipation and suggested I eat a lot of bran (not noting that bran would have lots of iron in it, of course). My midwife and I agreed that I would try taking my veggie-based iron pills (about 100 mg/day) and watching my diet for no more than a week. If I wasn't improving quickly enough (or at all), we would switch to the doctor's recommendation. It was my midwife's suggestion, by the way. A week later, I was much better - my blood counts were even better than had been hoped for, and by 2 months (the next tests I had done), I was completely back to normal. Hmm... makes you think, doesn't it. I saw the hematologist again (the 2 month post-partum visit) and he was impressed at how well I had recovered.

So... have no fear. A vegan diet does not lead to anemia. It is harder with picky-toddler eaters (the same goes for omni kids), but you can get plenty of iron and of course those very important B vitamins needed for blood cell formation on a vegan diet.

I do try to give my daughter a bit of citrus with her greens/iron-containing foods, to increase absorption. Just a bit will do it, I think (or help at least). She'll have some juice (currently, we are trying orange-peach-mango; lots of nice rich orange fruit) with breakfast/morning snack.

Cheers,

Lucy

[Katharina]

Another thing that dr:s seem to be unaware of is that babies might be SUPPOSED TO have slightly lower iron counts than adults. After all, breastmilk is perfectly designed by nature/ God and if its iron content is on the low side, doesn't that maybe MEAN something?

I would be very careful about substituting a baby with any vitamins/ minerals because their bodies are not mature enough yet to effectively rid themselves of overdosage. With the exeption of vit. b12 if the mother does not have any in her diet (but that is rare, I believe)

I have read several studies pointing towards the fact that baies iron counts are lower for a reason -- I'll try to find some links for you.......

[Lucy S]

And within normal, even on the low side of normal - is NORMAL! Unless there is some evidence that it is falling (versus stable or getting higher), I wouldn't worry. My levels are usually at the low end of normal for a specific reason, not related to diet. In fact, my iron levels are higher now that I'm vegan than they were before (even when I was a vegetarian).