Flu shot

[Laura]

I'm really worried about getting the flu. Everyone says I should get a flu shot. Are they vegan? Does anyone know how they're made?

[Erin Pavlina]

The flu vaccine is not even close to being vegan.

It's up to you and all, but personally, I think the flu vaccine just lines the pockets of the pharmaceutical industry. Even doctors say this vaccine cannot prevent the flu as the strain isn't even right. It's a huge scam if you ask me.

[tricia]

The flu shot only prevents against one strain of the flu...since most likely u will catch another strain cuz it mutates it wont protect you at all.. We have a bad epidemic of the flu going around but its not the strain that the shot protects u from..yet they are still urging ppl to get it... yeah like that makes alot of sense :rolleyes: its more money for dr's and for pharmaceutical companies...and personally they have enuff money...

[Laura]

Yes, I think you're right! I ended up spending a lot of time last night doing research online and I came to the same conclusion. Besides containing things like mercury and formaldehyde, it's grown or cultured in chicken embryos, so it's certainly not vegan. I think I'll just be sure to get plenty of rest, take my vitamins, and keeps my hands washed!

Thanks for your replys!

[annie7]

Make sure those vitamins contain zinc! It wouldn't hurt to even take an extra zinc by itself with an echinacea chaser!;)

[Laura]

Thanks Annie,
Yes, zinc is certainly important. Do you know if echinachea is okay when you're pregnant? I'm in my first trimester so am always nervous about taking things...

[sophie]

Laura- I'm not 100% sure, but I think you're not supposed to take echinacea when pregnant. By the way, I think it's a good decision not to take the flu shot...apart from the crap that's in them, the two people I know who got a flu shot last year got the flu, just a different strain to what they were vaccinated against. And the actual shot probably lowers your immune system to start with!

[tricia]

The best way to get antibodies into ur body is naturally...building natural immunities against diseases is the best way to do it...and the only way u do that is to either get sick which sux or be around someone who is and let ur body build its natural defense... flu shots are useless...thats my 2 cents for today...lol..

[xmysticprincessx]

I remember seeing something on the news last night about the flu shot and how the pharmicutical companies will not be able to make any more by the end of winter since it takes 4 months to produce. They even showed some company injecting eggs with the flu virus, and then showed dozens and dozens of eggs in some room where they were making the vaccine. I'm sure with more of the scare that they are "running out" that the same segment will be shown over and over again on the news and news channels.

I have also heard that there are certain herbs that are not good while you are pregnant, and echinacia being one of them. I forgot why it is bad for pregnant women.

And speaking of vaccinations, I've heard that many of the parents on the board are against vaccinating their kids. What makes vaccines so bad? Is it the animal testing? Or how they are made? I don't have kids yet, so I have not gone through to do all that research and everything yet.

[duckie1978]

The vaccines aren't vegan but they can cause severe damage to your children. My mentor teacher is a homeopathic doctor who treats several children whose parents have all traced their child's demise back to vaccinations and antibiotics. But then again there are children like my twin sister and I who were both vaccinated and nothing happened except for a lot of crying. However, we both got Rubella even though we were vaccinated against it.

[annie7]

I saw that, too!!! And I thought the same thing! It's as if they know the public is getting wise to their "scam" so they engineer a little scare tactic to boost their demand. And I'll tell ya something else, that scare tactic seems to work on the elderly around here in droves!!! Those poor people get taken in by so much!

[Kelly]

I have been doing a lot of research on vaccines lately, and I am really appalled that they are still recommended, and even mandatory a lot of places.
There is overwhelming evidence that whatever small benefit they MAY have is outweighed by the possible detriment to your body.
I can't beliee I had so much crap injected into my system. I don't think I will do the same to my children.


By the way-does anyone have info about enrolling unvaccinated children in public school? I have a 3 year old, unvaccinated future sister in law who wants to go to kindergarten next year. I'm worried about what the schools will say. (This is in Texas)


Kelly

[Christa]

Texas allows for medical, religious & philosophical exemptions to vaccination. The law for TX can be found at:

http://www.vaccineinfo.net/exemptions/exemption2003.shtml

My kids are partially vaccinated, but I did have to sign a philosophical exemption for chicken pox. I also did not do some others that are recommended, but not required here. I, too, would not do the flu vaccine, but not b/c I am opposed to all vaccines.

I think that there are issues with all vaccines, but in some cases, I do believe that the benefits of the vaccine outweigh the risks of the vaccine. It is a personal decision that we all have to weigh.

Colorado, where I live, has been hit pretty hard by flu this year & we have had 8 deaths in children, last I heard. It is scary, but I am not convinced that the risk of the disease is greater than the risk of the vaccine. As others mentioned, the vaccine is not a perfect match for the strain of flu that we are seeing this year, either.

For some people with compromised immune systems or a crummy diet, the vax might still be worth it, but I don't think that applies to most of us. I have seen some information that a diet high in fruits & vegis is beneficial to one's immune system & can reduce the severity of flu & colds. Especially if you are pg, I wouldn't risk the additives, etc in a vaccine. There are no scientific studies of the effects of vaccines on the infants of pg women b/c you can't ethically test things on pg women!

[Kelly]

I used to take care of a man who had an allergic reaction to the Pertussis vaccine when he was six months old. He had siezures immediately following the vaccine, and now he is profoundly mentally retarded, and can't walk or speak.

That kind of thing is really rare, but I would hate to know that I could have avoided it.

Kelly

[alexis]

I walked past my neighbourhood clinic today and saw a sign advertising a flu shot 'package' for the 'low low price of 21 dollars'. Then there was ANOTHER sign below it saying 'Flu Vaccines out of stock'. My own 2 cents about vaccines in general is that they're useless, they traumatise kids for no apparent reason and does nobody except the Doc and the drug companies any good. For the record, I have this very persistent sinus problem and according to the many doctors who have seen me, it's 'incurable' but i've started treatment from a chinese physician and a massage therapist in Beijing for my problem and i can actually breathe through my nose now and i can expect the problem to go away within the next six months. I'm not advocating chinese medicine or anything, but sometimes, it's better to rely on nature and on 'God-implanted' wisdom than to rely on the 'knowledge' of Man, especially drug companies.

[VOW]

Vaccinations are a personal decision.

I believe in them. I know of two people who have suffered from polio relapse, and are in wheelchairs now. I've done enough personal research of the history of medicine to understand the elimination of diseases that used to maim and cripple, and I appreciate what vaccination has accomplished in our time.

For every horror story people can produce about someone's reaction to a vaccine, history can point to thousands of deaths before the vaccine was used. Infant mortality used to be horrendous, some families died out because the babies never survived infancy.

But again, it's a personal decision.



~VOW

[Mariposa]

This is my first post (I'm more of a lurker) and don't want to offend anyone. I've been dairy-free for almost 4 years and meat-free for over a year. I am also the Immunization Coordinator at my county health department. Although I used to be fairly indifferent to vaccines, I am now supportive of them in most cases. I would just like to clear up a few things.
1. The pharmaceutical companies DO NOT make any money off the flu vaccine, or really any vaccine for that matter. Do you really think they make more money off a polio shot than a Viagra pill? Pharmaceutical companies HATE vaccines.
2. Anyone who thinks that vaccines do more harm than good is leading a very sheltered life. Measles alone kills HALF A MILLION KIDS every year in Africa. Children all over the world die because they don't have access to health care that people in our rich, selfish country take for granted.

Everyone is free to make their own choices of course, but until you've seen a tiny barefoot woman carrying a child over 7 miles to get a polio vaccine in Haiti, I think it's incredibly elitist to blanketly say that vaccines are "unhealthy." The fact is, they probably do cause harm to those 1 or 2 or 3 children who have underlying disorders, but these events occur so rarely that the risk cannot even be calculated.
Our government is incable of "conspiring" to make money off anything, let alone vaccines that they buy at a very discounted rate and give to the local health departments for free.

I will challenge you to call any pharmaceutical company and ask them how they feel about vaccines. It is a technically difficult, money-losing proposition and they would all get out of it in a second if they could.

[Kelly]

We DO live in first world country. That's precicely the basis of my belief. We vaccinate against diseases that were declining nearly to the point of nonexistence (in the US) even before we began manditory vaccination (Even polio). The main reasons for the very sharp decline in the death rate from childhood diseases were cleanliness and access to medical care. And now, in this country, the grand majority of outbreaks of diseases of this type are among recently vaccinated children. The vaccines don't even guarantee that they will confer lifetime immunity.
It seems a lot to put an infant through for uncertain, possibly unnecessary results.

Here are some books on the subject:

"The Vaccination Dilemma" - Christine Murphy, Editor.

"Vaccines: Are They Really Safe and Effective?" - Neil Z. Miller

"What Every Parent Should Know About Childhood Immunization" - Jamie Murphy.

Kelly

[tricia]

So since our medical care and cleanliness is much better than in africa...send the vaccines over there.... more and more parents are choosing not to vaccinate and personally speaking the flu shot isnt even needed... like previously stated the flu going around is not influenza a therefore the vaccine will not work... thats my 2 cents for today.... lol...

[Erin Pavlina]

Mariposa, what information have you read on the subject of why people are opposed to vaccinating? I'm just curious as to where your views are coming from. Have you viewed both sides of the issue carefully?

My cousin, as I think I mentioned before, is a top salesman for a major pharmaceutical company. At dinner one night we had a heated debate about vaccines. But I can tell you one thing, we both agreed that vaccines are making these companies mega-wealthy. He gets bonus pay every time his sales reach over $100,000 and he has been the sales person of the year 3 times at his company. He has recently written a book on how to sell this stuff to doctors and make a fortune. So somebody somewhere is making bank on this.

Still, I agree, it's a very personal decision. If I felt 100% certain that a vaccine would prevent a horrible illness that my child was very likely to come into contact with, I'd be first in line to get them their shots. But in my research I've concluded that there is no empirical evidence that vaccines confer immunity, so thereofre the risk of deadly side effects by taking the vaccine is simply not warranted.

I spent 2 years reasearching this topic and I am satisfied that I'm doing the right thing by not vaccinating.

[sophie]

I'm kind of worn out with this argument (My kids are not vaccinated and never will be, that's my stand) but if anyone is interested, there is another thread on this subject, we had a "discussion" about it a few months ago.

[alexis]

My own experience with vaccinations were terrible and it's something i would never want to inflict on my own kids in the future unless there's a horrible epdemic going on and there's no other alternative. Besides, there's no reason to vaccinate against say, mumps or german measles if my chances of coming into contact with smeone with that disease during my entire lifetime, are somewhere between really small to none. And i don't get why kids need to be vaccinated against chicken pox. polio, i can understand, but chickenpox???

[Erin Pavlina]

Alexis, my cousin said the reason the chicken pox vaccine is so popular right now is because when kids have chicken pox the parents have to take 2 weeks off of work to care for them or find other day care for them while they're out of school. The cost of that was so high and it was affecting the country's income so the vaccine came in to save them.

[alexis]

That sounds insane...they stick needles into kids unnecessarily just to make sure that the country's economy is not affected... i had chickenpox twice for crying out loud, my parents went to work all the same and left me with relatives..

[tricia]

I had chickenpox 4 times...and only once did they have to take time off (only 2 days)...thats just becuz i had to go to the hospital... but my grandmother still took care of me so my parents could work...my daughter had a mild case this past summer so i know she will get it again...she was only out for one week... i prefer to let her build a natural immunity... as long as the child is healthy chicken pox rarely causes major complications and nowindays with healthcare being so darn good :rolleyes: even if she had complications like i did she will be ok....

[alexis]

Tricia, i so agree with you, if you ask me, natural immunity is the best with mild stuff like chickenpox. Wish my mom had enough sense to read up instead of following blindly. Anyway while we're talking about vaccinations, does anyone know if there's this vaccination against Hepatitis B that you take every five years and what kind of harm it does? I've been fefusing any form of vaccinations especially for Hepatitis B and i need solid stuff to go with my intuition. :rolleyes:

[Mariposa]

Approximately 100 kids die every year from chickenpox. The main reason we give the vaccine to children is to protect adults, who are far more likely to die or have to have limbs amputated due to chickenpox. However, it is impossible to compel adults to take actions to keep themselves healthy, but it is possible to mandate it for children. Having chickenpox also means that in adulthood there is a higher likelihood of shingles. The chickenpox virus can lay dormant for decades and emerge as a painful, untereatable infection later in life.
Chickenpox is a disease that once you have, you have immunity to. It is not possible to have chickenpox 4 times. There are several other viruses that can cause similar symptoms, but do not have the associated mortality/morbidity rate that chickenpox does.

Hepatitis B is a 3 dose series given over the course of 6 months. Once the 3 shots are given, the person has lifelong immunity.

Recently, the United States experienced severe shortages of several childhood vaccines. This caused enough concern among doctors that a congressional inquiry was held. One of the main reasons is that compared to 1998 when there were 15 vaccine manufacturers, there are only 3 today. No one wants to be in this business.
Last year, Aventis Pasteur discarded about 12 million doses of flu vaccine that the public didn't want at a cost of about 120 million dollars. Now, the public can't get enough of the flu vaccine, which is only about 50% effective this year.

[tricia]

It is possible to get chicken pox more than once if your first case was not severe enuff to give u immunity... most likely people who only get a few "pox" are the ones who are prone to having a second and third time at it... its been proven... ive done the research behind it..and after my daughters own extreme mild case i was forewarned she will probably end up with it again... and i stand corrected.... i got the chicken pox when i was an infant becuz my older brother got it...then i got measles.... and then i got chicken pox again where i was hospitalized cuz the "pox" were in my throat and vagina... a very severe case but i pulled thru just fine....

my mother is in the medical field and so is my step mom and pretty much my whole family..(makes for very quick dr's visits as all i have to do pick up the phone and call...no waiting rooms... nothing... :) )
having been trained thoroughly they can tell the difference between other diseases that have symptoms that practically clone or get misdiagnosed with chicken pox and chicken pox itself...

ok im done... i will not vaccinate my daughter against chicken pox, i will not give her a flu shot... :D

[Christa]

I know that this same issue has been a pretty heated discussion here before & I don't want to rehash it, but...

I do think that I have looked at both sides of the issue & I can appreciate both views. I can totally understand your view, Mariposa, as I too work in public health & have a masters degree in that field. I do tend to feel that it can come across as a bit of a 'conspiracy theory' when people get into $ being made on vaxes, that they are totally ineffective, etc., but I also don't think that they are as straightforward great as the CDC & health depts. make them out to be.

I do think that those in public health are truly trying to help people, but they can't present every plus & minus or they would confuse the general public. For the most part, I do think that there is some benefit to most vaccines, & I do believe that they played a large part in erradicating many serious diseases in the US. However, I am glad that we, as parents, are usually given the choice of which risks we are comfortable taking with our children whether it be disease risk or vaccine risk.

My main concern with doing all vaccines has been chronic disease risk & overriding our immune systems too greatly. I do like the idea of allowing our bodies to develop some of its own active aquired immunity assuming that I don't feel the risk of the disease is too great. But I do understand how people can make either choice (vax or not).

The flu vax is one that I, personally, would not do, but some people obviously feel otherwise.

[duckie1978]

My biggest problem with vaccinations, especially for chicken pox and the flu, is that you have to keep getting vaccinated. If a child is vaccinated against to protect an adult, as Mariposa suggests, what is going to protect the elderly who may get shingles from the newly vaccinated child? Who is going to protect that child when they reach adulthood because they have still not had chicken pox. They will have to be revaccinated periodically and, again, they can cause shingles in the elderly. Look at the flu vaccination this year--the CDC and health organizations have all said that this strain that is running rampent in the US is different from the one that the vaccine is created from and it may not be effective for everyone.

Becoming immune to diseases by surviving them is part of human existence. Survival of the fittest. It is always unfortunate when people die; if you are a parent then when children die, it may affect you more than others, but that is part of life. No one knows when their time will come; we all are aware, especially if you chose to have children, that one day we and our loved ones will die and that those others may go before you do.

100 children died from chicken pox, but how many other hundred of thousands-possibly millions-of children get chicken pox and nothing happens? I completely agree that the reason we are being forced to vaccinate for chicken pox lies largely in the fact that both parents are usually in the job force and one will have to take time off of work to care for their child. The companies lose money over this because they will have to pay the employee for the time gone if the parent has time saved, but even if the person does not get paid to leave, the company loses a worker for the duration of the illness. Did the company itself go to the pharmacutical companies and tell them to make this vaccination? Most likely no, but the drug companies have employees whose only job is to research new products and demands from consumers. If these employees look into why people take time off of work, they will see that many parents take time to care for their sick children and the drug company will then research into the reasons the kids are sick and so forth. They can then report to their drug company bosses that X amount of people take time off from work because of Y; Y is an annoying illness, not usually lifethreatening, but causes a financial strain on companies because of employee time lost. Hence let's look into a drug or vaccine that we can make money off of.

[tricia]

I was watching the news today and they were talking about the vaccine for peanut butter allergies.... glad my body loves pb....lol...