Fluoridated water

[ArwenA]

This may be off the topic of veganism, but I had a disturbing incident happen tonight, and I wanted to get some feed back.

My 5-year old daughter attends a mid-week church program, and I decided to stick around tonight to see what they did. I bring a vegan snack for her to share with the class, and was pleased tonight when I was giving it to one of her program helpers and he asked if we were vegan (I had just said that Alana didn't eat dairy or eggs). Someone in his family was vegan, and he made a nice comment about it being a very healthy way to eat. So far so good. Anyhow, I went to the room where the kindergarden age kids break away for their special games, lesson, craft, snack, etc. and noticed that the kids all had paper cups of water all ready for them to drink, and the water container next to them was one of those infant water gallons with fluoride added! I was absolutely appalled by this. How could someone give fluoride water to kids without the parent's knowledge and permission? Are people just completely unaware that there's any controversy about fluoride?

Anyhow, I tried to not make a big stink about it, because I already felt like I was being different by bringing a snack and inspecting the fruit snacks label that they were giving out to kids to see if by any chance they were vegan (they were, surprisingly, but still filled with sugar, hydrogenated oil, artificial colors, etc. Yuck.) I politely requested that Alana receive some different water, and even poured it myself and marked the cup. That nice man who had made the comment before was really cool about it and even sounded interested and concerned, but I could feel the cold eyes of the teacher and other helpers upon me. I just don't know what to do. Was I making too big a deal out of it? I feel like calling the church office and explaining that this is something they really should not do.

Sorry to vent for so long, but this has been one of those difficult days. In my chinese take-out tofu dish tonight I unsuspectingly munched down on a piece of deep fried mystery meat and was so disgusted I was almost sick. We've been getting much better food from this other place in town, but last time we were there the stench of old meat and grease from the grill made me want to scream. I am just tempted to give up on non-veggie restaurants for good, but that's hardly practical, is it?

And one last straying-off-the-topic comment: Erin, we got your excellent book yesterday and it's really helping to encourage me that I've made the right choice for my kids and that I'm not alone. We've got birthdays and the holidays coming up, and I'm really going to need it! Thank you.

[Erin Pavlina]

Most people are definitely not aware of the controversy surrounding flouride. People look at me like I have 6 eyes when I tell them we avoid flouride wherever possible.

In this case, I wouldn't worry about it too much. a little flouridated water isn't the worst thing she's going to drink in her life. But I would say definitely in the future to bring a water bottle just for her and mark it. You gotta make it as easy on the teachers as possible.

Thanks for the compliments on the book; they're always appreciated.

We ordred Thai food last night and I forgot to get our Pad Thai without egg! Doh! The smell alerted me before the site of the scrambled egg. How do people eat that stuff? It smelled like sulphur.

[ArwenA]

Thanks for the reply Erin. I will make sure that Alana has her own water bottle from now on, and maybe share a small bit of information with that one assistant who was interested. I did some more research on fluoride, and it was really scary. So many "mainstream" sources and big names in medicine are speaking out against water fluoridation. Just like dairy though, fluoride is this sacred cow that people just can't imagine is bad for you. I had the hardest time myself getting past the idea that dairy was this healthy, wonderful, wholesome thing. The dairy industry, I know, has spent a lot of money getting that image firmly intrenched in people's minds.

I know what you mean about eggs. They smell totally nasty once you stop eating them for awhile. I went to a vegetarian "dine out" at an asian restaurant recently where the whole meal was supposed to be totally vegan. Everything was great except for this one fried rice dish that they forgot and put eggs into. Everyone at the event ate them but me, and I found this disturbing. I hadn't realized that I was the only vegan there. No one else even commented on them, just tucked in with gusto. Ewww. I prefer the vegan pot lucks where you don't have to worry about anything.

This board really quiets down as we approach Christmas, huh? I haven't seen much activity lately. This is our first vegan Christmas, and I'm feeling less stressed since the success of Thanksgiving. I've noticed family and friends starting to try some new products and it's really encouraging. My best friend, a ovo, lacto, pesca vegetarian, has started using Earth Balance margarine (yum) and buying soy yogurt, and my die-hard meat- and dairy-eating in-laws are at least buying nest eggs and non-hydrogenated oil whole grain bread. It may not seem like much, but it's a step in the right direction (I think the eggs were because I gave them a brochure about factory farms).

Well, once again I'm going on and on. :)
I think I'm afraid of over-talking the subject to friends and family here and I'm using the boards as a sounding board! I know a lot of vegans in Chicago, but none really close to home. In fact, my daughter and I are thinking of putting up a sign at the Whole Foods to find some local vegan friends (like a personal ad). She finally met some other vegan kids at a potluck and was ecstatic, but they live to far away to see regularly. Does your older child have any vegan friends to play with? Alana had a non-vegan friend over tonight, and we made double chocolate vegan cookies. The friend loved them, and didn't notice that anything was different at all. Yay! She also tried tofu yesterday and liked it.

I hope you have a wonderful, happy, healthy, holiday season!

[duckie1978]

I agree with Erin: I don't believe that the majority of people are aware of the controversy surrounding flouride. I was always brought up that floride was awesome for you as a child but you didn't need it as an adult. I was told that it would help my teeth stay strong and healthy.

About the staff at your church: I would think that they, like I said before, don't know what the deal is with controversy. They probably all think that they are doing something very helpful. They may think that your avoiding flouride is a vegan issue and not treat is as seriously as you think that they should. I meet people *all* the time who can't figure out why I won't pick out meat, dairy and eggs from foods when I go out--"it makes things easier that way," I am told. They do not see being a vegetarian as important and essential to my beliefs, and merely brush it off as a quirky lifestyle choice I have made, like my piercings and tattoos.

Erin gave the best advice: just bring your daughter her own water. Who knows maybe other parents will look into the flouride issue and join you!

On the topic of eating out at non-veggie places--I don't eat out at all. The biggest reasons are that I don't know what is really in my food, they always mess up my order no matter how carefully I order, but what I really hate is smelling and seeing the other peoples dinners. The carnage is disheartening to me. For the most part, I like not eating out anymore because I have learned to make most of my favorite take-out meals. When ever I got Chinese food it was always the same thing: garlic sauce with tofu and broccoli. Why spend 8-10 bucks when I can make it at home for a fraction of the price and it tastes better? The only thing I haven't been able to replace is Indian food. All of the cookbooks and recipes I have seen are dairy based :0( They are vegetarian but filled with dairy. Bleah!

[lil ted]

so many people believe that fluoridated water is good for you. Where I live in Hamilton, NZ all drinking water is fluoridated & its really hard to find bottled water with out it. They even used to tell new mothers to use fluoride tablets if the water didnt already have it to give to their babies (this was printed in the progress book that all new mothers recieve at the hospital) and almost all toothpastes have fluoride added. Is it like this in the U.S? Is fluoride still this heavily promoted?

[sophie]

Hey Lil Ted! We're lucky down here that our water isn't fluoridated (we live near Christchurch, which has about the best drinking water in the world, and we're on rain water ourselves), my partner is from New Plymouth and whenever we go up there we buy bottled water, as not only is the water fluoridated but it tastes like bleach! Disgusting- is it like that in Hamilton? I remember my mum giving me those little white fluoride tablets every day when I was little.
My kids have never had fluoride, not even in toothpaste, and they have great teeth (so far!)

[Casey]

Lil Ted and Sophie, that brings back so many memories! I spent my early childhood in New Zealand (Wellington) and I can remember my mom giving us those little fluoride tablets - I'm pretty sure it was Zymafluor and you pressed a lever on this plastic contraption and the tablet came rolling out. And we knew it must be good for us because the plunkett nurse said so and taking our little fluoride tablet was so much fun! ;)
Who knew back then? At least parents have more information now to make educated decisions about what's really in the best interest of their kids. If my mom knew then what she knows now, she says she'd do a lot of things very differently.

[sophie]

LOL Casey, Plunket is STILL around. I took my baby to the nurse to get him weighed a couple of months ago, and she told me I could start cleaning his teeth with toothpaste, but that I should use adult-strength fluoride toothpaste. Hmmm, considering a tube of fluoride toothpaste can kill a small child (if they ate it) I think I'll pass on that one. :)