Reformed Vegetarians are the worst.

[alexis]

Hahaha...i'd pack it ion a little box and send it via air mail...

[tricia]

i will be waiting....lol.... and a merry xmas to me

[duckie1978]

This thread is nice and stress releasing for me to read. I do not have many people to vent to about vegetarian issues. I have to agree that it is very frustrating to be in a conversation with someone who was once a vegan/vegetarian and currently eats animal products again.

When I was first a vegetarian, I was a zealot. In my quest to convert as many as possible I began to talk with my history teacher, who I looked up to a lot for a variety of reasons. I was actually speaking with some classmates about how I loved not eating meat and she interrupted us. She proceeded to tell us how during the 70's she was a vegetarian too, she jumped on the bandwagon and ate macrobiotic foods, brown rice and tofu. She told us how one night after being a vegetarian for X amount of years (I forget exactly but at least 3), she woke up and wasn't able to move her body at all. her husband had to have an ambulance come get her, and she spent the night in the hospital, once she started eating meat there and she was miraculously cured. Since then she has never looked back. What was I supposed to think? I had no idea what to counter that with at the time. Now I would have asked her what test the doctors ran because it had nothing to do with not eating meat! I was so upset by that; I couldn't imagine how someone, even with that happening, would think that it is okay to make a meal out of a living creature, and not thought that there was something else going on.

I have met several other people who told me that they found it was too hard to follow the diet or it was a fad thing that "everyone was doing it" type of situation. One girl became anemic when she followed a vegetarian diet and "her doctor forced her" to go back to eating meat. I have also met several guys who have been vegetarian or vegan while they were dating someone and once they break up they will go back to eating animal products again. Although one of them I have converted back over, he was on the fence still but I think he will think about it more and stick with the switch back.

When I do encounter "lapsed" veggies, I will often say that most people who do not eat a balanced and healthy diet will get sick. it has nothing to do with being a vegan/vegetarian diet; children shouldn't eat pizza and fries all day, why should an adult or teenager? For a lot of people, being a vegetarian is not about spiritual reasons. I became one because I thought it was wrong to keep them on the factory farms and use them to test cosmetics and drugs on. i thought there was nothing wrong with free range meats and there was nothing wrong with drinking milk and eating eggs. I didn't make that higher connection, at least not until a few years later. Some people never make that connection and being a vegan/vegetarian becomes a characteristic of their personality that can change like music or clothing trends.

[Erin Pavlina]

I love the idea of harrassing meat eaters by asking them the same type of questions they ask us.

1. Where do you get your Vitamin C? Aren't you worried you won't get enough on an omnivore diet?

2. How do you avoid getting so much protein? Aren't you worried about osteoporosis?

3. Is there enough variety on your diet? Or do you just eat steak and cheese all day?

4. Eat dairy products? I don't think I could do it. I could never give up vegan cheese...

Who else has some?

[sarahrose]

There are too many to list! For starters,
1. How is your cholesterol?
2. Arent you worried about heart disease?
3. How will you ever lose the weight?
4. Do you have type 2 diabetes in your family history? Arent you worried about it?
Also, my husband had horrible acne growing up, his dermotologist told his parents his lactose intolerance was seriously aggravating the problem, so they bought him lactaid, which did not help. It went away only when he cut out dairy completely. So, questions about acne would be good also.
Another would be digestion, such as "how are your bowel movements? Are they regular? Don't you suffer from constipation on your high protein diet?"

[mochamama]

I must echo the poster who said this was a cathartic thread! How wonderful to find this--I really feel I belong here.

I was a somewhat lazy vegetarian for 18-19 years. I tried veganism intermittently about 5 times, but the 6th time stuck. I've been told that if veganism was so good for me, I wouldn't have been "lazy" and fallen off the bandwagon so many times. That seems to me like an easy attack. . .but really, life is much more complex than that. And yes, sometimes changing over to a vegan diet is a challenge. It doesn't mean that it isn't good for you. Lots of things that are challenging in life are good for you.

I used to frequent a natural parenting messageboard that began as very vegan friendly. Over time it evolved into something quite different--some of the members got into a sort of organic Atkins thing, which was extremely hostile (and often hysterical) towards vegetarianism. It got to be no one could post anything pro-veg without being trashed, so I had to move on.

I certainly have experienced the fury and backlash of the former vegetarians. They have a holier than thou, we are on a higher rung of development attitude. The attitude may rankle, but what is more disturbing is that the intellectual basis against vegetarianism is so weak. Yet people will listen to their arguments, because if the anti-vegetarians used to be vegetarians, it offers an illusion of credibility.

I totally agree with those who've said that those who were unhealthy as vegetarians or vegans, were likely because they didn't eat a balanced and varied diet. Personally, I don't think a vegan macrobiotic diet is good for most people on the long run. The story about the history teacher getting well after eating meat--the pertinent fact is not that she was a vegetarian, but that she ate a macrobiotic diet.

Also stupid are those who discount your health because you must be one of the "very few" who are able to "manage" on a vegan diet. Or because you have a special blood type. I happily tell the blood type people I am a thriving O negative vegan, which always perplexes them.

As for the veg fad people, can't do much about them. Its good that they at least tried something different. But it is frustrating that they will proceed to the next food fad, such as Atkins or the like, and bellow about how great they feel when they eat meat, when only a year ago they were in awe how great they felt being a veg. I sometimes worry they make the rest of us look bad, but really, in the long run, who are they fooling?

Erin, I love your clever replies.

Sorry if I rambled a bit. . .no time to edit, because I have to dash off somewhere.

[mum2sarah]

I was reading a newsletter today put out by Vegan Outreach, and it was talking about vegan advocacy. It made the interesting point that when we are trying to spread our message about veganism to others, our focus should be first and foremost on animal suffering with health benefits being of secondary importance. They said that when people are only told about the health benefits, they can sometimes question it because there are "studies" to back up all sorts of different dietary styles. And "healthy" diets are more subject to the fads of the times, so a person may be more vulnerable to changing ideas as the fads change. And they said that focussing primarily on the health benefits just validates human selfishness because it prioritizes the benefits to yourself first.

They said that if we stress the humane aspect of things, it's hard to argue with changing times and it promotes compassion. They feel a person will more likely make a long-term committment to veganism if they are doing it for the animals first, because that doesn't change regardless of the latest "healthy" dietary findings. Food for thought, huh?

[sarahrose]

I absolutely agree with you (and the article you read). I am a buddhist and we beleive that killing, in any form, is wrong. Killing an animal is the same as killing a person. So when I say I don't eat meat for religious reasons, people never argue with me. However, I am also studying nutrition, so that point always seems to come up. And, you are right, people always seem to have an argument to counter me, but no one wants to argue the morality of killing animals-at least not strangers. I have family members who feel free to argue about it, but generally, people will leave that subject alone. The most annoying one is that plants are 'murdered' for food also- I usually just say that plants have no central nervous system, so to our knowledge they at least feel no pain. I hate it when people try to pull that crap !

[mochamama]

Thank you for making such good points, mum2sarah and sarahrose. It is perhaps more productive to focus on animal suffering.

I've encountered people who have read this or that book or website, which has convinced them they will wither away and die without animal fats and proteins. These people do get quite argumentative that their health must come first, regardless. Then they point to how "natural" it is to eat meat, Native Americans did so, cavemen, blah blah. I've heard stories about Tibetan Buddhists who eat meat so it must be OK spiritually,, that Adolph Hitler was a vegetarian (which is false) and no one likes to be like Adolph, and how about the "say a little prayer to the animal spirit" before you devour its flesh.

I think most people are fairly respectful about my choice to be a veg. For 18 years I was a veg, no one bothered me about it but my mom, who fretted I would gett skinny and pale, and that a vegetarian pregnancy would be dangerous. Unfortunately,. I've seen more vegetarian backlash in the last year than I'd seen in the previous 18 years of being veg.

I hope everyone is careful. There are some hardcore anti-veg fanatics out there. It wouldn't be beyond some of them to hang out on veg boards, to plant seeds of confusion and doubt.

[sophie]

Erin- LOL, love the comments for meat eaters- here are some more
-Oh, sorry, didn't realise you were a meateater, hmm, we don't have anything with meat in it sorry, hope you're not hungry

-You eat dairy? Oh, my sister's friend's son eats dairy, you should see how skinny he is, and his nose is ALWAYS running

-Yes, I used to eat meat once, it just made me sooooo sick, as soon as I went vegetarian I felt soooo much better.

[annie7]

1. Oh, that's weird...you don't LOOK like a meateater.
2. God gave us dominion over the vegetables. They were put here for us to kill and eat.
3. I couldn't live on just meat, meat, meat every meal (* salad, salad, salad* I'm sure you all heard it !)

[tricia]

I heard a comment someone had a made about being vegan as a form of satanism from a christian person... ....im jus like yeah right...

[Jenica]

I am LOVING this thread. My mother has recently had her eyes opened to the atrocities committed on factory farms and to the health benefits of minimizing or doing away with dairy and meat consumption. So I read her some of your "questions to ask meat eaters." Having pestered me with questions like those for years and recently realizing she wasn't as informed as she thought she was, she had a good laugh....well, we had a good laugh together.

Originally posted by mochamama
I hope everyone is careful. There are some hardcore anti-veg fanatics out there. It wouldn't be beyond some of them to hang out on veg boards, to plant seeds of confusion and doubt. [/b]

As far as anti-veg fanatics are concerned, we do occasionally seem to get them on our boards, though bored people trolling is a little more common. Fortunately, most of them aren't devious enough to actually draw us into conversation before their post is noticed and deleted. Negativity about veg lifestyles doesn't last long here, nor does it get much response.

[alexis]

My mom gave me and my sister a hard time about going veg mainly because she believes that veganism and vegetarianism is a form of the Hindu and Buddhist religion and being the ***** that she is, she cannot tolerate any other religion or form of christianity than her's...but seriously, one of my uncles calls my sister a babar which he says is the name of cult and he thinks all vegans are cultists....anyway i say down with all who terrorize us veggies...

[VOW]

Vegans and Vegetarians are not Christians? Oh, sheesh!!

Tell your brilliant relatives that the Seventh-Day Adventists are Vegetarian, and most assuredly Christians.

And here's a thought-provoking link, encouraging Christians to become Vegan for Lent:
http://www.christianveg.com/

That last group even has a catchy little slogan, "WWJE," for "What Would Jesus Eat?" Bible-thumpers are quick to point out that after the Resurrection, Jesus DID eat a piece of fish. The website even has a response to that attack.



~VOW